Dog Dilemma

[Chicken on the Hill]

I have a German Shepherd/crossed(dont know what with) 7 year old, unspayed. She's a great dog,on her own. My husband has a 4 year old Staffie, very unaggressive,soft as anything, scared of chickens,good with cats etc. When we got together they were OK at first,nearly 4 years ago. They lived outside a good deal of the time, and had a good sized run,but some people were feeding them through the fence, and I found them with a chicken carcass. Also the neighbour complained they barked when people walked past, so they came indoors. They get 3 good walks a day. We soon found that they were messing in the house,when we went out and they were confined to the kitchen. Also the GS started to go for the staffie for no reason. The other day she went for him, and the kitchen was like a slaughter house. I've been bitten before by getting between them,my fault I know. So for a few weeks we've had the staffie in the lounge, and shut theGS in the kitchen. And she's been messing, and the staffie has been clean. We now think it was maybe just her all along. My husband's answer is to get rid. There is a rescue centre who will take her, but they've said she will be difficult to rehouse due to her age. But as long as she is vaccinated, they would have prepared her spayed, but are happy with a donation towards the op,then they will take her. But to be honest, I'd rather find an answer to the situation so I don't have to give her up. I've thought about confining her to a run,with a kennel. It just seems so unfair on her to be treated differently. Any ideas?

[kate egg]

Oh my goodness, what a dilemma for you. I guess that you have had checked over by the vet to make sure there is no underlying reason she is messing, and being agressive to the staffie?

My friend's GSD messed in the house when she was getting old, but I think she was about 9 or 10, and 7 seems a bit young to be doing it for age reasons.

Could you build a divided run outside so they could see each other but not get at each other? each with its own kennel? It would probably be quite expensive though.

Good luck with whatever you decide

[Meanqueen]

You need Wendy for this dilema, can you hang on till tomorrow night, she is helping with a rescue and has to be up early tomorrow. In the meantime, maybe someone else has an answer.

Ilona

[Lilo-Lil]

Dont give up on her yet, you are right to try to explore every avenue.

Totally agree with Ilona, it is worth talking to an experienced dog trainer or person about this before you make a decision.

One of my dogs began to mess in the house due to a medical issue. With help from a fab vet I had him for a further 12 months with very few accidents. He was 16 when I lost him. Another of mine died recently and did go through the same towards the end. I found taking him just round the block last thing at night made a huge difference.

The other thing: is she fully housetrained? Lots of dogs who have been used to spending lots of time outside have never learnt to be clean indoors. Again, this is something you would probably need to explore with a person experienced in dog behaviour

[wendy]

I am here.
It is difficult to say without seeing the dog in situ. But I would say it seems that they have been used to having a lot of room and slowly have been more and more confined.
Also what Lilo lil says are you sure she is housetrained, as if she was and then been outside some time may have lost it. I would certainly get her checked over by a vet to make sure she hasn't any health issues.
Dogs are not unpredictable, there is a reason, you just don't know what it is that makes her 'go' for the staffie.
Who is the alpha of the two ? Because if you don't know, or have got it wrong then that is the reason the staffie is getting beaten up.
If he is getting priviledges ie into the lounge without her, when he isn't high enough in the social standing to have it. Then he will get punished. They both will know who is higher ranking.
I would certainly get somedone to look at the situation.
Seperate the run outside and give them something to do with their time. How boring to be stuck in a run with a few old toys. There is only so much a dog can do bark, chew and sleep. He cannot read a book, write a letter, watch TV or phone a friend.
If they are to be left any length of time. Don't feed from the bowl. Buy two Kongs and stuff it with their food [if it is dry, moisten it] then freeze it.
Next morning, give them their frozen meal, in their seperat runs, and it will take them a couple of hopurs to chew it out. Thus keeping them mentalkly and physically stimulate. Any left over put inside an activity ball or a buster cube and they have to knock them around to get the food.
You can also get interactive games for dogs. I have one for Josie [and she is only left a few hours usually] get onto Nina Ottosson fun inteactive games on the net. That may keep them occupied as well.
After 7 years it is a bit unfair to think of rehoming, I am afraid any of us that have more than one dog always have to bear in mind that if they don't get on [and not all kids get on with brothers and sisters] then we will have to seperate. We should have those plans in our head the day any new dog walks into the house as a just in case.
If she goes to a rescue, who will want a dog who fouls the house, is dog aggressive and is 7 years old. Not many I fear. We all know what will happen to her then. Or a life in a rescue kennel without her own special person.
I think it is up to the two of you to try to resolve the problem or have them separate and bring them in the house at seperate times.
Ask your vet to put you onto a member of The Association of Pet Behaviour Counsellors, I trust she is insured as they are not cheap. Or look up Association of Pet Dog Trainers and see if someone near you can come out and help.
Keep us posted on how you get on.
Wendy

[Chicken on the Hill]

Well, my mind is made up to persevere. We've had them both in the lounge this evening,no problems. I think there is some sort of jealousy issue around myself and husband. I've never come home to a bloodbath,but fights only start when myself or both of us are there. I feed them from one bowl as they fight if given one each,as the staffie thinks theyre all his. He usually eats first, and then her, no problems, and food is always down. the cats only get chased when theyre both together, the staffie isnnt bothered about them on his own. Both dogs respond best to me,rather than my OH. I was wondering about a new run, as this time, due to chickens, the run would be in a part of the garden away from public access. I think the issue of the GS becoming untrained is probably true,as she was fine before. I only put her outside originally as she has a kind of allergic skin problem and was costing a small fortune for relatively inaffective treatment, and someone recommended putting her out, as it may be caused by something in the home. Well it worked, and even though inside now, no probs. I spoke to the vet about her when she had her jabs, and he couldnt find anything obvious wrong with her,but I will take her back to find out if he can investigate further.
When my ex had a very territorial dog,collie cross,defended everything,bit me 3 times! I tried evrything to stop him messing. He was just a young dog, but peed on all my baby daughter's toys,and messed when we went out. He was also aggressive to visitors,snapped at my daughter, and bit me. The ex was unhelpful,but agreed to me trying to sort the problem, he used to beat him and kick him with steel toecaps(all 26 stone of him, how brave). When we went out I confined the dog to the area near the front door, so he had the hall, stairs and landing. He had food, water, and toys, and he didnt mess. We only were out for a couple of hours max. I also changed his food as he was on the worst of the worst of plastic wrapped rubbish. He was a nicer dog overnight.
I have been out of the house alot more due to college,it can't have helped. And Christmas when I was ill was tough for them. I will look into ways to retrain Kel(GS) to stop her messing. If I can't find the answer myself, I'll get a referal to see if someone else can help. At the end of the day, I put up with my OH,and theres no retraining him, so why should I give up on my dog? I think I'll get my falconer friend to make me a leather gauntlet in case they need separating ever again, I don't mind bruises,but broken skin from bites hurts! Neither dog would intentionally bite a person, but when i got in the middle before, I got my finger ripped open in the retreat!

Thanks for all your replies. And thanks,Wendy.

[Chicken on the Hill]

Found this pdf, going to try it.
www.ddfl.org/behavior/retrain-dog.pdf


It points to some things we've been doing wrong. Just found out falconer friend is having similar problems, he has a young staffie and an older bitch, so will pass info onto him, too.

[Chicken on the Hill]

Here are the dogs in question. Kel and Sparky(or 'Jacky Legs' from the film kangaroo jack, and 'Spotty Pig')

[kate egg]

Maybe you could get your OH re-trained as well as the dog kicking etc won't be helping matters but I'm sure you know that. My OH has the opposite problem and is too soft and lets ours pull him off his feet so when I walk him I have to re-train him all over again

Good luck, you sound like you are feeling more positive about it all now anyway

[wendy]

Yep, it is easy to housetrain, if you are on the ball. Dave is housetrained at 12 weeks. But we are really into him and watch his movements, any aiming to the back door and we are up and he is out there with us rewarding the good behaviour [only we could get a puppy in this weather lol]
You can get a can of pet corrector. It is what postmen carry to stop aggressive dogs. It is pressurised air and makes a REALLY, REALLY loud noise. Not advisable to do it when the dogs are being good, try it outside on your own to see the noise it makes. Maybe cheaper and a better way to seperate two dogs.
Please don't go down that route, rather have a happy household than one that you have to intervene.
Feeding from the same bowl ????? to my mind a very daft thing to do. Asking for a fight, also how do you know who has the right amount of food?
I have one who is food orientated and will get ansy if dogs go near her bowl, so she is fed in another room.
If they only fight when you are around then it seems that the wrong dog is getting the priviledges before the higher ranking one.
Good for you having a go at getting it sorted. They cannot be happy with constant, living on edge and pitching into each other and I am sure neither of you are.
Maybe your other dog peed, pooed and generally was a mess because he was worried and frightened of his owner return.
I would have bitten the Ba****d as well.
Wendy

[Chicken on the Hill]

Kate Egg, it was my ex who kicked the dog, a different dog too. My current OH is abit soft, trys to be hard but fails miserably in the eyes of the dogs! They come to me when he shouts them! as for the ex-he got a piece of meat on his plate that I'd dropped and the dog had licked. and I spat in his tea!

Going to draw up a plan. We are currently feeding them separately, as they are separated when we are out. Ive got some security cameras from a few years ago which we never put up, so I'll set a cople of those up too.

[kate egg]

COTH I am so sorry I thought you said it was your OH and good for you what you did to your ex. It sounds like your real OH is a bit like mine, cannot be firm with Dino to save his life. He loves the dog to bits, but tis I that do the training and have to train OH sometimes too

I'm sure you are on the right tracks to solving this dilemma, sadly I think Wendy is right and it would be hard to find a new home for the 7 year old GSD.

Take care xx

[Teasal]

Sorry to hear of your problems with your dogs.

I am surprised at a dog and bitch fighting though. Two bitches are sometimes trouble. my dogs get on fine with the bitches. But Abby the old bitch, and Flo her granddaughter are a different matter. They will fight bad, and its hard to stop them. Their problem is usually food based. We feed them separately always, but if Flo goes near Abbys dish, they have a right ding dong. Another thing which sets them off is the phone ringing, or a knock on the door, its like a jealousy thing to see who can get to the door first.

They are fine together if we are around, but if we go out to work, one has to go in the kitchen, and they are quite happy with that.

[unicorngirl]

Hi

If you do want to get some professional advice the association of pet dog trainers website will have a list of trainers in your area, some of whom are specialist pet behaviourists. They are usually not cheap, but when I had problems with one of my dogs it was a great help to have the support and greater understanding that was provided by mine. See if you can get some local recommendations as some are obviously better than others. Your vet might know of someone.

Good luck.

[hfbinnie]

I have to agree with Wendy, they were used to more room and being outside.

They were probably barking because people used to feed them and they were justing saying to pass folk 'hey come here, feed me'.

I have two girls, both rescue but the first 'rescued' from a reputable breeder who just wanted a good home for mistake puppies and was well cared for. Rescue home was the quickest way to find a home for the last 2 pups. The other was beaten and was afraid of her own shaddow.

At one stage recently the beaten dog stopped eating and whilst I had an incline to what the problem was my son, who goes to dog training every weekend, asked the instructor. What she told him confirmed what I thought. Feed them separately in different rooms if necessary as the alpha female wasn't letting her eat....there wasn't aggression I may add, just a determined nudge out the way. Now, and although they are given separate bowls, they often choose to eat from the same bowl and often at the same time with no problems.

WENDY

Maybe your other dog peed, pooed and generally was a mess because he was worried and frightened of his owner return.

Absolutely and my sons little rescue whippet will still do it nearly 2 years on when she is left in a too larger room for her comfort thanks to the the so and so who beat her. She is also has to sleep in my bedroom and in the same bed as my other dog for comfort otherwise she will mess all night. Luckily they are the best of pals and I have to just break up play when it gets too rough for the house.

Both dogs have been spayed, so no raging hormones and the need to fight for the chap up the road.

Watch a pack of dogs, the alpha male feeds first then the privilege goes down the line in order of position....you have to mimic this but you are the alpha dog, then your family and dogs last.