beak rings

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Shlugh
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Re: beak rings

Post by Shlugh »

I'd never heard of these either, so this is an interesting thread as a novice keeper, just from a learning point of view.

I've read it all, and my gut feel is that it seems a bit like muzzling a dog with a biting problem. You have physically stopped the problem, but are you really getting to the bottom of what is causing the behaviour in the first place?

Andrew, you seem to have tried such a lot, so maybe, as a last resort they have a place. Good luck, and please do update us. I'm really interested to hear how you get on long term.

Shlugh xx
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Mo
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Re: beak rings

Post by Mo »

I'm not sure that Andrew posts here any longer. His approach to hens was practical, as if they were farm animals rather than pets. Maybe he got fed up with being jumped on for it. He designed a very useful 'roll-away nest box' after problems with egg-eating.
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Wortle
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Re: beak rings

Post by Wortle »

Gosh.

I have been keeping hens on and off for 20 years and like most people on here was reticent about these new fangled things.

I have had no problems using them and having tried to use everything else first etc etc.

However after three years of employing the entertainment, upping the protein, adding greens, stockholm tar anti peck spray, gentian violet route, I have decided that I have been unintentionally cruel. I dont free range my birds as I dont want them taken by the fox so problems can occur. I would now use bumpa bits as the first resort if problems dont settle after a fortnight. I have found they lead to much happier hens all round.I know because they lay MUCH better and they maintain their pecking order regardless!
Jacquieh
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Re: beak rings

Post by Jacquieh »

chickenchaser wrote:The thing I find worrying about these threads is that people don't read them properly and may use these things as a first resort instead of a last resort after trying EVERYTHING else as Andrew has.


Not to cause issues, but that's up to the individual. Why does it have to be a "last resort"? Especially if it works. Think of the time, and effort that goes into trying to stop bad behavior. Not to mention the poor birds that are being ABUSED by the one pecking them. Everyone is worried about the one inflicting the pain...but NOT considering the bird's being abused....That whole time you are 'trying' different methods of breaking this habit, those other birds are being picked clean! So, I think of it like this.....months of several bird's being hurt until I hopefully find a way to stop this behavior....or get these clips and only one bird is 'uncomfortable' for a couple of weeks. Hmm...? I'm going with the latter. I'm not going to sit by and watch my girls being abused. Do I think these things are kinda "Medieval"....Yes! But, I don't think it's painful. And of course I'm going to make sure there is no injuries associated with them.
But, I don't like the idea of being 'shamed' into NOT using these clips. I googled them, and this thread came up. And in one post it said how nice people are on here.....smh...I am on this first page, and I see that....! So, I'm putting my 2 cents in...and probably NOT coming back! And...I'm going to order these clips, Right now!
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Richard
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Re: beak rings

Post by Richard »

Hi

Firstly Jacquieh, it's a pity you may not return to read replies to your comment.

This is quite a touchy subject, one that comes up now and again. From reading other Forums now and again, it would seem the opinion is about 80 - 20 in favour of not using them.

I kept chickens for about 18 years, had between 7 and 35 throughout that time and it seems to me the answer to almost all the problems is space for your flock.
Chickens in a domestic setting are basically captive creatures and when they act naturally in enclosed situations, things can sometimes get out of hand.

Chickens have a pecking order, most of the bullying is either when you introduce new birds to the flock or when one is broody.
If you don't have enough space to let them separate themselves a bit, it's doubly hard to stop any punch ups.

I'm lucky enough to have had an enclosed very secure Run about 8 meters by 6 meters with ample vegetation in there for them to find their own space and a good sized shed where they all had their own space.

In all the years I kept them I introduced new Hens quite often and after maybe two days of some chasing and occasional 'attack', they sorted themselves out naturally.

As far as broodiness goes, separation in day and integration at night usually sorts it.

So personally, I would never use Beak Rings.

Finally, a Forum, any Forum, would be pretty boring if everyone agreed all the time, a Forum is for discussion and debate.
Key is that everyone has their own opinion about something, it's just 'agree to disagree' and not get personal.

Richard )t' )t'
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Linda S
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Re: beak rings

Post by Linda S »

Hello Jaquieh
The first thing you say is that you don't want to cause issues so why then is your post so confrontational ?.
This is a very emotive subject , have you read any more posts or have you just zoomed straight in on this one.

There is no way that any of the chicken keepers on here think of only one side of any story and do there upmost to care for and love yes I said LOVE !!their feathered friends.

You say you won't be shamed into not using these things, so does that mean that you have not got control of your own mind so to speak.

One of the ways to stop any pecking that is not wanted is to spend time around your hens and have a water pistol or squeezy bottle and give the perpetrator a short sharp spray of water.
This has worked for me with a very strong willed and down right bad tempered girl , in fact two girls.
Sorrel was a very clued up and intelligent girl and when she saw the bottle it came to stop her in her tracks.
She would then take the ''I'm not doing anything wrong honestly and look butter wouldn't melt in my beak pose''.
Of course this plan of action needs TIME spending with your girls and working people don't have as much as non workers but even so it can be done.
Please don't come out with the accusation that I'm cruel by doing this method, in fact I would say that it just goes to show how intelligent some of these girls are, and they arn't just ''daft or stupid chickens''

You do not know the members on this forum so what gives you the right to ridicule anyone and doubt that we are a decent lot of people.
The members on here take care of others in a way that is quite frankly genuine and true to themselves.

So thankyou for your two penneths worth that is your opinion and I respect that, and you are very wellcome to come back, it wouldn't hurt you to come and read some more posts.
You would see how real this forum is and you may make some good friends, yes we don't allways agree withat each other but everyone's ideas and opinions are respected.
The whole point ofor a forum like this is for every one to take part if they want to but to respect everyone else
So there's my challenge for want of a better to you to come and see what we are about or are you too narrow minded to care, or don't you want us to get to know you? !!!

Linda
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manda
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Re: beak rings

Post by manda »

Jacquieh wrote:
chickenchaser wrote:The thing I find worrying about these threads is that people don't read them properly and may use these things as a first resort instead of a last resort after trying EVERYTHING else as Andrew has.


Not to cause issues, but that's up to the individual. Why does it have to be a "last resort"? Especially if it works. Think of the time, and effort that goes into trying to stop bad behavior. Not to mention the poor birds that are being ABUSED by the one pecking them. Everyone is worried about the one inflicting the pain...but NOT considering the bird's being abused....That whole time you are 'trying' different methods of breaking this habit, those other birds are being picked clean! So, I think of it like this.....months of several bird's being hurt until I hopefully find a way to stop this behavior....or get these clips and only one bird is 'uncomfortable' for a couple of weeks. Hmm...? I'm going with the latter. I'm not going to sit by and watch my girls being abused. Do I think these things are kinda "Medieval"....Yes! But, I don't think it's painful. And of course I'm going to make sure there is no injuries associated with them.
But, I don't like the idea of being 'shamed' into NOT using these clips. I googled them, and this thread came up. And in one post it said how nice people are on here.....smh...I am on this first page, and I see that....! So, I'm putting my 2 cents in...and probably NOT coming back! And...I'm going to order these clips, Right now!


In answer to your post Jacquieh

To begin with:
- How do you know the behaviour is really bullying? Not wanting to pick anyone out but I am going to because it gives a prime example. In this thread ChiChi asked about these and had just got ex-batty's a few days previously.....they need to establish their pecking order..that is not bullying - the question was asked but many wouldn't and would just go ahead and use them....which kind of proved Chickenchaser's comment

- Is it dietary? Putting beak bits on isn't going to sort out a dietary problem, say lack of protein which is why behaviour like this can often happen.

None of the responses are about shaming anyone - it is difficult to get a tone when you're writing something on the internet....maybe you didn't mean to come over as aggressive (but it does seem it could be taken that way) or maybe you did (in which case job done).
The fact that there are different people disagreeing with them is not shaming people - they are entitled to their opinion in the same way as you are entitled to yours. The fact that there are more against / have put their opinion and why, than for isn't shaming it's just the way it is.
Surely better they put their reason than just saying "No don't like them!" how does that inform / educate?

I will reply like for like and will be blunt to you...
In my opinion they are wrong because they can and do cause respiratory problems /irritation. I also think if you are going to use them as a first line "solution" without eliminating other things first such as pecking order or dietary issues (which in my opinion is good animal husbandry) then you are ill advised and are not thinking about the flock as individuals or as a whole.

I wouldn't walk into a room join a conversation and go on the attack when I don't know the people in that room and then flounce out again with a f@#k you - because that is effectively what you are saying you are doing...I'll SMH at you there because that is behaviour that makes no sense to me....am I going to lose sleep over it...Nah sorry to disappoint.

If you're not prepared to join in a discussion and put forward your point in a way which engages people in any kind of a meaningful level what is the point? Isn't that the whole point of forums? Your post makes no sense except to chuck a hand grenade in and leave. Come back look at the replies...answer them if need be. It could be the Lane is not for you or you are not for the Lane and with that kind of opening post it would seem the case is true both ways...but I'm always open to being wrong.

Or perhaps you are a troll... in which case you won't come back (or maybe you will just to see the responses...we'll know if you do )grin2( ) and you should just get back under your bridge.
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bikesandbirdsbob
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Re: beak rings

Post by bikesandbirdsbob »

Hi missed this one Manda .
Have to read later .
No problem debating but like you say , If you do not like being told your wrong then tough I say .
Must go , but will be back.
Bob
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Richard
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Re: beak rings

Post by Richard »

Hi

Maybe I should have posted earlier.

Our friend and most welcome new Member is from Nevada USA. (Source ip)

To read all posts and reply in the time he or she was on Forum, they couldn't have read it all thoroughly.

Whatever, no manners and can't string a discussion together in a democratic way.
What a shame some people are like that.

Richard )t'
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bikesandbirdsbob
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Re: beak rings

Post by bikesandbirdsbob »

Hi Richard as long as no one is worried , my mum said sticks and stone will break your bones words will never hurt you.

(How wrong was she ....)
Bob
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