LL's chicken keeping adventures

[lancashire lass]

It's been a busy week building the new chicken run and coop. The coop is nowhere near finished but I've now got a very good idea of how to go about it - the full daily entries are in my Gardening Diary (a bit boring really because I was unable to log on to Photobucket to post piccies - which I will post here now that I've reset my password)

The first task was to build a roof between the existing chicken run and the new quail house/coop space that I had started to build at Easter this year. The quail project is on hold now until next spring when it makes sense for new girls to start laying (apparently, unlike the chickens in the first year, quail do not lay in the winter months) The reason for the new roof is that water was landing on the footpath and splashing into the new coop area. Also, I won't be standing out in the rain while the chickens are lovely and dry especially in winter. We've had a couple of rainy days and so far the new roof is keeping the rain out. The main problem seems to be during heavy deluges when rain water shoots over the guttering. Ignore the mess (wood pile and patio) - work in progress ....



Next, the new run - sited between the shed and glass greenhouse where I used to keep the feed and bedding bins. There was some cursing at first trying to build the roof over the greenhouse but surprisingly went up a lot quicker than expected:



With a plywood piece from a crate as a back wall and along the bottom of the greenhouse (for shade plus stop inquisitive beaks hammering on the glass panels!) I just need to put some boarding along the bottom of the shed as that is a possible route for rats to get in (last year when building the first run, I was fixated on making it fox proof but lessons learned the hard way, I have to consider the rat problem too!)



And a pallet butted up to the greenhouse door frame:



Netting went up (I still have to do the 2 sides against the greenhouse) and a door which opens into the run. Hanging the door took at least 3 attempts to get right but now I'm quite happy with it. Followed by white paint - makes it brighter in the run, as well as reflect the sun's heat so that it doesn't quite have that greenhouse effect:





And a doorway to the smaller run under the quail house:



Building the coop has been difficult to say the least, and I was beginning to consider buying a flat pack but I've persevered and now have a base. At this moment it has been dismantled because I have just painted underneath as well as put filler between gaps in the wood of the coop part (and then it will all be gloss painted for easier cleaning and keep the red mite out - I've read that many people burn the old coops that get infested but I don't fancy burning my shed down LOL):







I should be finished this week on the building work, and then just need to buy a feeder and drinker to hang up in the main run, and several bags of sharp sand for the floors in both the main and mini run.

As for the girls, they've tolerated the sawing and drilling, and meanwhile Posh has been learning a new trick and training me LOL. In recent weeks I noticed that she can climb the perches to the top balcony but coming down is much more problematic and takes a flying leap off the pallet shelf often crashing into the wall or feeder. So when I pop down with their treats, I've been lifting her off the pallet and down to a much lower shelf. At first she would panic that I dared to touch her but now she is very happy with this arrangement, to the point that she even tells me she wants to be lifted down. I didn't twig on at first why she was always so noisy but then I realised she was telling me to come and carry her down even when it wasn't treat time. She even moves closer to the door so that I don't have to walk all the way round to the other side of the cherry tree

And I owe a big apology to Scary the Bluebelle. Since about mid May, I have been convinced she had stopped laying. I thought I knew which eggs came from the different girls - Posh the Black Star always laid a medium sized pale brown egg (she was my first egg layer so I knew what her eggs were like), Baby the Amber Star a large dark brown egg, Ginger the Gold Star a brown egg, leaving Scary laying the almost white egg which were long, narrow and pointed at one end and not all a standard looking egg. When the white eggs stopped coming, it was natural to assume Scary had stopped laying. Well ... the other day I noticed she was in the coop for quite a while and when I went in to check, she was most definitely laying an egg and out popped a medium sized pale brown egg. At the same time, Posh managed to lay 2 soft eggs in one day (one in the morning in the coop, and the other was on the high rise run in the afternoon which caused a frenzied egg eating contest amongst the others) So have I been blaming Scary for lack of eggs when it has been Posh all along? And when did Scary start laying brown eggs?????

Here comes the statistics - the egg tally this past week was 19, slightly up from the week before. It will be exactly a year this coming Saturday when I got my girls and so far the year count is up to 1228! And that's with one not pulling her weight since from about mid May so should be much higher. Then again, after reading up the potential egg laying, Bluebelles lay up to 260 eggs a year, with the others round about 300 - the average so far works out at about 307 per hen despite the reduced egg laying. So I really can't complain at all and think the girls have done very well.

[lancashire lass]

Well, after a very interesting and rewarding 12 months with the girls, it's time to finish the diary and move on. I have learned such a lot and it is still a learning curve, always finding something new in my research.

This week's egg tally was up to 21 eggs, with 3 from Posh one of which was soft shelled but if it hadn't been trod on and broke was perfectly fine. The year's tally came to a grand total of 1244 eggs. Even without the decline of one of the hens, that still works out at 311 eggs per hen so you could say the other 3 easily laid 320+ each.

The coop and run building work is now finished and only some final touches to put up and outside wood to paint which I can do after the new girls move in. If anyone is interested, the final photos can be found in my garden diary

[Librarychick]

LL. I only just found your diary in the last couple of weeks and I read the whole year's entries from start to finish. So inspiring, thank you. I am embarking on my first chicken adventures and have started my own diary. I have learned so much from your blog. I hope you get your Quail in the Spring and start a new diary for us all to enjoy.

All good wishes, Librarychick, Bluebell & Ginger

[lancashire lass]

LL. I only just found your diary in the last couple of weeks and I read the whole year's entries from start to finish. So inspiring, thank you. I am embarking on my first chicken adventures and have started my own diary. I have learned so much from your blog. I hope you get your Quail in the Spring and start a new diary for us all to enjoy.

All good wishes, Librarychick, Bluebell & Ginger

aw thank you Librarychick Good luck with your chicken adventures - it is very rewarding and you'll have lots of fun learning

I just want to introduce my new girls, all White Stars I've only seen one that seems different to the others with a bit of colour in the feathers, but the other 2 are not for venturing out of the coop yet so I have yet to see them properly.





No sooner had I put them into the coop when one of them gave an egg call. When I looked inside, blow me there was an egg in the new washing up bowl nest box LOL.



Meanwhile my old girls are a bit disturbed by the new additions and been voicing their objections rather loudly. I do hope they settle down before my neighbours come home from work LOL

[KarenE]

Oooh they are very lovely girls, you must be overjoyed! They are just like my Casper who is a Coral Nick - don't know if they are a variation on white stars. She has a huge floppy comb like yours, and lays lovely white eggs. Very nice bird, although a teensy bit shy.

I do hope you keep your diary going, it's lovely reading about your girls

[lancashire lass]

Oooh they are very lovely girls, you must be overjoyed! They are just like my Casper who is a Coral Nick - don't know if they are a variation on white stars. She has a huge floppy comb like yours, and lays lovely white eggs. Very nice bird, although a teensy bit shy.

I do hope you keep your diary going, it's lovely reading about your girls

They are very dainty little things and unlike the old girls that look rather chunky in comparison. They are still a little shy, one in particular remains in the smaller run which is unfortunate as it is not the easiest to clean - at a pinch, much like the coop run of the old run I can just about reach to poop pick but thankfully not very often. The feed, water & "treats" (just small amounts of greens and seeds and of course sweet corn while they get used to variety in their diet) are all in the main run. The other two are much more confident and not so panicky when I go into the main run although any sudden moves and they dash round ... flighty is a good description.

I've already sold one of their eggs but only because I needed one to make up a half dozen for sale (I did put larger eggs in that box to make up for it in weight which looked pigeon sized in comparison LOL) Still, with one egg from the first day, all 3 are laying and already a half dozen:



The egg shell feels so smooth, it reminds me a lot of Sugar or Candy coated almonds

Re: the diary. I wasn't sure if anyone read the diary particularly when I was building the new coop and not one word from anyone. I'll be the first to admit that sometimes I can waffle on, but to be honest this time round I'm going down a more "scientific" route with the new girls which doesn't make for good reading as most of it will be data. For example, I'm weighing each egg and setting up a weight tally which I want to link with feed (the girls will still have treats and no harm will come to them, but I want to see if there is a correlation with certain foods - early in the feed research, hemp seed seemed like a good source of omega 3 fatty acids but I noticed the egg tally took a dive which I never did find out if it was the seed or just coincidence given the small amount they ate anyway) Unfortunately DTL doesn't have the set up and I have a private forum on another site which I can use for documentation. I can certainly post updates but probably not in as much detail as in the past.

[Librarychick]

Hello again LL - those new white ones are lovely. It would be lovely if you could still post an update every so often. I love your scientific approach - it helped me get over my first couple of weeks as a new chicken owner with a bit more confidence.

I have a very busy life (my two chickens are supposed to give me an interest outside of the Library - and it is working a bit I think and hope). I am going try for a weekly diary update at the weekend. But I'm just about to wedge in a post. - Today my Bluebell laid her 8th egg and it was another supersize egg. So the 4th and the 10th are both biggies. Is there some sort of cycle that your scientific methodology can explain? I will be keeping a record down here in the South-West too given my "librarian tendencies" but probably not with your lab-like precision.

All good wishes, Librarychick, Bluebell and Ginger

[sandy]

LL I love reading your diary Your photos of your growing hen home are brilliant and very informative. I have been plagued by being on holiday for the past two weeks with a bulging battery in my phone so have been deprived of getting on the forum. I am just catching up and was crestfallen to read you are finishing your diary for us to read I understand you are a very busy bee but please drop in when time permits, after all The Spice girls have become part of our 'virtual flock' and I have to say your diary entries are an excellent read, I promise I read everything you write

[lancashire lass]

aw shucks, I didn't realise. I have to admit the new girls are peeking my interest in the chicken psychology as they are unlike my older girls.

They are still shy but quickly learning that when I come down to the runs with a tray in my hand, there are nice things to eat and are anticipating them LOL. They wait until I sprinkle them around the run and then rush out from the mini run door way and pounce on them unlike the first time I gave them some fresh stuff. Still only small quantities but I am keen for them to start eating some greens as these will colour up the egg yolks naturally as well as taste nicer than shop bought ones. They have sussed out the sweetcorn cobs rather quickly and are the first of the veggies to be investigated and attacked, but the leafy greens are still a mystery to them. Today I brought home some cabbage like seedlings I had cleared out of a bed while weeding on the plot - my older girls didn't hesitate in eating their share but the new girls skirted round the plants unsure what they were

The other thing I noticed was their poo - okay, a strange topic to bring up I'll admit. I noticed the new girls smell a bit, and their coop reeks much like the smell of the poultry farm. I don't remember the first lot having that smell about them. Their poo is also a tan/orange colour and more like toothpaste squirts unlike the mighty big poops the others do LOL. It could be due to eating some of the sand in their runs but the poo colour was there from day one so not something they have picked up since. The girls look fine so I don't think they are ill but all the same, I decided to give them some probiotics - basically, the stuff you buy in the supermarket rather than the expensive stuff you can buy for poultry. It can't do any harm and along with the apple cider vinegar in the water this week while they settle down in their new home, hopefully they'll soon be much like the others. I wasn't sure they would eat the stuff but I put it in a dog bowl and they clearly like it (okay, blueberry flavoured must be appealling LOL) as the bowl is completely emptied.

With regards to Posh egg laying, I have been doing a lot of research and a lot of things seem to be pointing to Infectious Bronchitis. It started off with a google "brown eggs changed to white" and THIS POST from Backyard Chickens forum had a reply to a similar question:

The tint of a brown egg layer's eggs is due to the shell glad in her oviduct using an extract of hemoglobin in her blood to give the brown color. Evidently, she is not using that extract which is no big deal. The color of the egg shell is extremely thin. You can take some fine grain sand paper and take it off so it doesn't take much of a change to go from a brown egg to a white or pale brown one. Brown egg layers usually lay progressively paler eggs as they age, even dark egg layers such as Welsummers and Marans have faded eggs as they get older

Interesting, so I pursued it and found another more informative post from The Austen and Texas Backyard Poultry Meetup Forum

Protoporphyrin is a precursor to hemoglobin porphyrin, and binds with metals, like iron, in the blood. They also strengthen the shell, binding to the calcium. Meaning, brown shell color comes from the hemoglobin in the blood of the chicken. If the bird is not absorbing or processing calcium but there is available calcium in the diet, and her eggs have gone white, she's sick. Somewhere inside where you can't see it... yet.

If all the chickens' eggs were lightening, you could say it was the heat, or just getting lighter as the laying season progressed... the body stores for coloring the egg slowly depleting over the laying season. How old is she? Color fades with age... I need only to look in the mirror to confirm that! haha

But only one bird means she could have some kind of stress to her body causing her to be anemic.

Does she have access to any chick feed? If you feed a laying hen a medicated feed, or if it gets into the medicated chick feed, certain coccidiostats can make the shell lighter.

She could have a virus or bacterial infection weakening her blood. Squeeze her and listen for rattles, bronchitis. Treat it.

Internal and external parasites will drain the blood. Internal worms can be treated, and look for red mites at night and treat her and the coop for them.

Now, they've all been wormed umpteen times and red mite doesn't seem to fit the problem either as the other girls would be affected too so I don't think it is anaemia. I decided to look up Protoporphyrin on Wikipedia and found this interesting about egg shells:

Protoporphyrins are deposited in the shells of the eggs of some birds as a brown or red pigment, either as a ground colour or as spotting. This occurs in most passerine species, some ground-nesting non-passerines, such as waders, gulls, nightjars and sandgrouse, where it provides camouflage, and some parasitic cuckoos, which need to mimic their passerine hosts' eggs.

Protoporphyrins strengthen the egg shell, and are deposited where the shell is too thin as a result of calcium shortage. Spotting therefore tend to be heavier where the local soil is calcium-deficient, and in the eggs laid last in a clutch

More research, this time an article from The University of Florida about factors causing poor pigmentation in brown-shelled eggs. The article was more about stress in large flocks being the biggest cause of the problem, but this does not explain the softies or thin shelled eggs. But interestingly, it does mention

Disease . Viral diseases, such as Newcastle and infectious bronchitis, affect egg production in poultry. These viruses have a specific affinity for the mucus membranes of the respiratory and reproductive tracts. Because the virus directly infects and damages the reproductive tract, the signs of disease are manifested indirectly in the product of the tract, the egg. Thus, total egg numbers decline and eggshells become thinner and abnormally pale and have irregular contour. Internal quality is also adversely affected (watery whites). These egg production and quality problems can persist for extended periods of time.

Which led me to Wikipedia

Avian infectious bronchitis (IB) is an acute and highly contagious respiratory disease of chickens. The disease is caused by avian infectious bronchitis virus (IBV), a coronavirus, and characterized by respiratory signs including gasping, coughing, sneezing, tracheal rales, and nasal discharge. In young chickens, severe respiratory distress may occur. In layers, respiratory distress, nephritis, decrease in egg production, and loss of internal (watery egg white) and external (fragile, soft, irregular or rough shells, shell-less) egg quality are reported.

The bold red describes her eggs exactly so that leads me to wonder if Posh had Infectious Bronchitis? It must have been prior to sale as none of my girls have ever been ill and surely the others would have been infected too with it being so contagious? All the birds I have bought have gone through the intensive vaccination programme which lists an array of treatments and boosters before they are shipped off for sale, so either the vaccinations were a cause or did not work. The poor quality eggs only started to appear from about mid-May although the white eggs have been since I got them so at the moment it is all a mystery.

I did find an interesting article unrelated about improving brown egg colour - there is a link to a pdf file from World Poultry which I had no problems gaining access from work but have had to register on their site from my home computer. If the link doesn't bring you to the article, basically it is about using Bacillus subtilis spores in a (commercial) probiotic feed. If you've managed to get this far in the post without yawning , you may be able to see the logic of the supermarket probiotics I mentioned earlier. Initially I thought I'd try feeding some to the old girls but the new girl poop kind of changed that. I know the supermarket probiotics contain Bifidobacteria and Lactobacillus acidophilus and Lactobacillus casei so not even remotely related to anything I've just written.

Must be I'm ready to go back to work to get those brain cells fired up again

[lancashire lass]

Oops, sorry forgot to answer your query Librarychick

Today my Bluebell laid her 8th egg and it was another supersize egg. So the 4th and the 10th are both biggies. Is there some sort of cycle that your scientific methodology can explain?

Hens that are just starting to lay are like teenagers and can produce an array of sizes until they get the hang of it - eventually these should settle down.

As for the biggies, have you cracked open the eggs yet - you might find they are in fact double or treble yolkers

[sandy]

Just checked out your gardening diary as want to keep upto date with the henhouse progress and it is looking good The poo you described is exactly like the poo my neighbour and I are seeing from our new girls(got them all from the same place) of course they also came with mycoplasma! I reckon they haven't been wormed as the place does not have a great reputation but if your girls have been then I cannot think why they are pooing this stuff? I used to keep a record of eggs, well I only had 2 for 2 and a half years, my Alice laid like clockwork, good solid eggs but she died from eyp after 2 and a half years. Abbie was spasmodic and they were usually huge or soft she died from eyp after 3 years and 7 months. When I had 5 girls I hardly never got a full house but with my 11 I am lucky to get 5 or 6, rarely do I get at least 9. Please pop on with some egg facts as I sell mine, they fight over them, so I would be very interested.

[lancashire lass]

Just checked out your gardening diary as want to keep upto date with the henhouse progress and it is looking good .

Thank you I thought building the first run was an achievement but this one with building a coop from scratch was much more complex. The only downside so far with the new coop is that the tray does not fit the entire width and one of the girls is pooping in the side bit which means I have to practically climb inside to reach it LOL. When closing up for the night, I always have a peek inside the coops to make sure the girls are all there and tell them "night night" and so far only one hen is using a perch and the other 2 are nestled in the bedding. I was a bit worried the perches might be too close together but obviously not when they can settle down inbetween. The washing up bowl nest box is brilliant and working out really well. And pulling out the tray to poo pick is so much easier than the other coop (there is a tray but the position of the coop in the run means I can't pull it out)

I reckon they haven't been wormed

That thought crossed my mind too with these girls so I will be worming them soon but it will have to wait until pay day as I'm completely skint now LOL I had wanted to use the pellets I had got from the allotment chicken club but it was getting past the expiry date which is why I did the old girls last month rather than waste them - if I were to get even a 10kg bag, there will be loads left over after worming the new girls so I thought I might do what I did last year and wait until about mid November and worm both sets of girls for the winter (unless things change of course)

Well, time for a weekly update. The old girls have accepted the strangers and no longer voice their objection from the moment they come out of the coop in a morning, thank goodness. It's all settling down nicely and so far peace reigns.

Having saying that, one of the new girls named Pearl is the biggest and the bully - I'm now getting a good idea of why the shyest would not leave the coop for a long time as she now sports a bald patch on her back. Unlike the beak bites and bum feather eating by Scary in the early days, these seem to aim for the lower back leaving a sore patch as well as nasty feather pulling. Here we go again This time I was ready with the anti-feather pecking spray - I got the can of Scarper and entered the run. Of course they all bolted into the mini run ... okay, block off the little doorway and try again. Surprisingly for flighty birds they were remarkably easy to catch and treat, but of course I'd forgotten the spray was staining and very obvious on such brilliant white plumage! So I got the dwindling Featherite spray and tried again. It didn't stop the beak jab into an already sore spot but did seem to partially curb the need to pull out and eat the feathers.

I let them settle down when I realised I'd left the spray inside the run on the pallet shelf so I opened the run door and as per usual they all did a mad dash round the run and one dashed straight out of the run before I knew it She went charging towards the garden but luckily I had put something across the doorway but she could easily have jumped over it if she had tried. She then went dashing towards the patio - but I was able to stop that for her to once again go rushing towards the garden but this time went running towards the greenhouse door where I was able to catch her. Phew, that took a few years off my life.

When I was buying the feeder and drinker, I noticed the place sold the same brand as the cheap small ones I'd bought for the high rise run for Ginger and Baby when they were being persecuted - they easily tipped over and emptied contents. I had a look at the 3 litre size containers and thought they looked too small so went for the 6 litre ones ... strange how I have no concept of size without holding both up to compare because when I got home, the new ones were huge. Oh well, at least they won't tip over quite so easily LOL. I also bought 2 hooks to hang them up but unlike the S shaped ones I used before, these were more like what I call dog lead clips, and the stupid things were just a shade too small to lift the handles out. Debating about changing the hooks from the old run to the new - doh, wouldn't it be easier to just switch the feeder and drinker LOL. Just to be sure I didn't accidentally introduce diseases between the 2 runs, I gave both sets of containers a thorough cleaning and the switch actually works out much better.

After 3 weeks being at home, the girls have been very clever at getting me to give them treats earlier than they should but all will change next week when I'm back to work. I have noticed my morning regime of cleaning coops and taking the feed down is taking longer than I'd like - I spend too much time and I can see this being a problem if I want to get ready for work and out the door for 7.30am! I'm going to have to give this a rethink of how to go about it - one feeder fits inside the dust bin with the sack of pellets but not the other when clearing up at night to stop rodents getting access. I'm almost sure the new run will be safe as I built it on the concrete base/paving so no risk of anything digging through so I might get away with leaving the feeder in there for now but I will keep my options open.

Last weeks egg tally came to ....... drum roll ........... 34 (22 from the old girls and 12 from the new girls since Tuesday) There were really only 21 decent ones from the Spice Girls as there was one HUGE egg from presumably Posh with its white thin shelled chalky appearance. As mentioned before, I've been weighing the eggs and got a rough idea that Amber lays about a 70g egg, Ginger about 65g and Scary is about 60g (give or take) The huge egg was a staggering 90g - how she managed to lay that is incredible considering she is the smallest hen. As for the new girls, it is not possible to know which had laid the eggs so I can only do an average of the combined lay for the day: on Wednesday 50.7g, Thursday 50.9g, Friday 51g and on Saturday 52.6g. I compared one of Scary's eggs with one of the white eggs and considering it is only a 10g difference, the size do not match. As the white egg shell feels strangely smooth I'm wondering if the weight is in the shell rather than the contents.

An observation I've made so far with regards to feeding is that the new girls do not hesitate when eating pellets - clearly a food source they are more familiar with whereas the old girls have got crafty and if I didn't give them a mash meal for breakfast would probably prefer to go hungry and noisily demand their treats. I am trying to introduce the greens to the new girls as no doubt the eggs are a better quality for it, but they simply won't eat them - very odd. The other day when I brought a cabbage home from the allotment, I tore off the big outer leaves and tossed them into both runs - the older girls were clearly happy tearing them to shreds and eating the leaves but once again, were untouched by the others. I did finely chop up a little of the cabbage and some of it had got eaten but they would much prefer the sweetcorn and seeds (and of course mealworms) than the more healthy stuff.

Talking of mash for the old girls, I put some of the probiotic in it and this has gone down very well. Normally they have a feed then abandon the bowl to eat later in the day but this time round they all had their heads in the bowl until it was gone. I can't help compare the two sets of hens and realise that despite the bald bums and occasional beak butts, the Spice Girls are much more contented and there is harmony amongst the flock.

[KarenE]

Hey LL

Oh don't stop your diary, I find it and your gardening one absolutely fascinating and I refer back to it quite a bit, especially your info about diet and feeds etc. Plus as Sandy says, we must follow all henpals virtual flocks, there would be rebellion in the ranks if one of the henpal flocks maintained radio silence indefinitely!

It's odd what you say about your new girls - they sound very very similar to Casper (who is eating her medicated sardines in my kitchen right as I type). She has a distinct smell compared to the others - even the ex batts never smell anything like her. And she's been here for a few months now and it shows no signs of going. I got Remie from the same place and she didn't have that smell so perhaps it's something to do with the breed.

[sandy]

My goodness, a runaway is my worse nightmare , so glad she didnt!
My Meg's eggs are so tiny but upon cracking the same contents pour out as a normal sized egg?
This smelling thing is getting weird now if Karen is experiencing it too. I know Meg is a hybrid if a hybrid if that makes sense, Bluebell with a white star so I have recently been told. I know Iris was part ranger part Rhode Star now too and she has always had stripey pink legs and walked funny.
Hmmm wonder if a post on chicken keeping may flesh out some more instances?

[sandy]

I know I am probably on the wrong section but just blown away by your lovely veg, what a pumpkin My corn is growing nicely, does it need to be yellow before I pick it? The tom plant growing by the girls run is producing some lovely red toms unlike the 'official' plant in the greenhouse. Ordered wormy pellets today see if that works on the poo!