My attempt to keep chickens.

[Grannyof4]

I have to agree with SHMBO and have thought this all along but didn't want to cause any upset so kept quiet. My personal view is that she has gone through enough. Trust me I have been through this situation more times than I care to add up and it is not easy but how long can you go on force feeding her. I don't think we can always tell how much pain an animal is in. We sense when they are not right but "if only they could talk".

[Cheshire Chick]

I don't know anything about this type of illness or recovery rates etc. I do though have to agree with SWMBO - she has raised a very important question and it's up to you as her carer to find the right answer. Sometimes enough is enough and I have been here more times than I care to remember as well. It's our responsibility to do the best we can for our animals and, as you know only too well yourself, it causes us to break our hearts. I know you will make the right decision for your girl.

[bikesandbirdsbob]

Hi yes I agree with the above , with one slight twist .
Force feeding . I am not actually making her eat . I put the food in her beak and she flicks it back down her throat . At times it gets stuck and I help either poke it down and or shake out. She enjoys her freedom in the front lawn and company when I let the kitchen raiders out with her . I know that it is a long term cure illness . The fact that she is still alive and fighting to survive , I am feeling to keep at it. Should she start failing ,not moving about or falling over then the time to PTS will happen.
I have decided that she will not go to the vets for a cure any more ,if I can sort her out then I will do so .
As mentioned you have to have her in front of you to make a call.
Rest of flock seem ok .
Eggs down ,moulting time.
Bob

[Grannyof4]

So I will be force feeding ......these were your words in a post on 11th June.

[bikesandbirdsbob]

Hi , Bad English I suppose.
Force feeding ,Putting corn down geese throats that they do not want.
Putting food down a birds throat that wants it but cannot swallow very well , maybe the same ,but different reason.
I think it is a case of giving the meds a chance to do there job.

Mrs Woo`s beak seems to be losing its twist . This is I believe due to swelling going down . It may mean that the meds are kicking in . It also could be my total imagination and wish full thinking . Certainly sweet corn is the wonder food I use when hens are sick , it seems to keep their body functions working.

Capt. Chaos is not well . I went to the coop to check him out last evening I thought a dose of Metacam would not harm him.
Well I took him out and put him on a flat top (coop) . On his shoulder left side was a big lump. I poked it and it was a soft fluid . I put the Metacam down his throat , went to get some Baytril and when I picked him up the LUMP bust and oozed puss water. I squeezed it and solid puss came out leaving a hole the size of twenty pence piece . I gave him some food (sweet corn as well) Cleaned him up . I put this down to CHAMP as he was after him on the top of the coop . I put Capt. Chaos in Jacks coop to recover . Jack is now next to the 2 boys in half of the run and coop of his own . Foresight must have been involved in that one.
Vets weekend . Seems ok this morning , food and water , looking sorry for himself.
This is again like a cats lumps after a fight , presume a bit of meds and a rest and he will be back fighting fit! hens are moulting and it is all watch this and watch that in my flocks . Good job my kitchen raiders are still active to make me smile along with Goldie and Litalen (Beardie )
Bob

[kitla]

[Freeranger]

I had to look up canker to find out what it is. No idea of survival rates, sorry, but the article wasn't encouraging. It also said:

Removal of affected tissue from the chicken's mouth or throat is not recommended unless in cases where the bird can't breath or swallow, as it promotes invasion by pathogens leading to secondary bacterial infections.

See more at: http://www.poultrydvm.com/condition/canker

That might explain why her progress is up and down.

Only you can make the decision for her as to whether it's the right decision, but SWMBO's question was a good one. If you are going to carry on with her treatment, there are some natural antibacterials and antiparasitical things it mentions - thyme, garlic and ACV. An organic farmer once told me to include birds foot trefoil and a couple of other plants into grazing as natural anti-parasites. I'll find out what they were.

[bikesandbirdsbob]

Hi thank you , read a s a p.
I know it is not a good success rate , but it can be cured but takes a very long slow process. I feed her at 30 sweet corn , tuna and first for a long time wheat and pellets , just to keep her crop working , plenty of water to wash it down .
The food and water will make it travel down the throat . Her breathing is better thanks to the meds . It is just the Canker now to get rid of.
tonight she will be stretching her legs on the front grass.
C.C. is sitting in his new residence and the wound is drying up . More meds for a while , thanks to Mr`s Woo sharing .
Kitchen raiders on top form today .
Bob

[KarenE]

Sorry to hear Mrs Woo is still not well. I have read up on canker too and it seems a horrendous disease, very stubborn like bumblefoot. I think as long as they are eating and showing some sign of wanting to stay around, it's always worth a shot at treatment. You will know when she's had enough, they usually let us know. I think SHMBOs question is a very insightful one, and we have to remind ourselves to ask it from time to time. You are very lucky having her around to do that for you.

Also very sorry to hear CC is also not well. It does sound like an abcess, he might need abs as well.

[sandy]

Poor Capt Chaos, hope he recovers well soon. Unfortunately I fear Mrs Woo may not be so lucky, poor Woos, my Fay Woo will be off over the bridge very soon I fear

[bikesandbirdsbob]

Hi all , Busy times at the flock pf Penelope and Red.
Where to start .
Capt. Chaos , Vets yesterday star attention in waiting room . Dogs all around barking jumping about . CC eating sweet corn and drinking from a cup on his cat cage . Pictures taking . siting on my arm .
Well vet looked him over . seems ok but for the hole which is healing up. Moult is nearly over . Baytril .8 a day ( I was giving him .10 a day (2x 5) Stopped the Metacam as not in pain. Be back with flock by end of the week , fighting fit hopefully. Hens missing him (well some of them anyway) .
Mrs Woo . She is still knocking back 40 plus sweet corn a day , plus a few pellets . Throat is reduced in size due to canker . She swallow`s but the corn get stuck at the top , once past she gets it down to crop on her own . I get two bits in then a poke with the cotton bud and next ones please . She enjoys the lawn -sun bathing with CC . The kitchen raiders join her and they seem tp get on well . She still wants the top hen spot though . As you say Sandie , we know when all hope is lost . I am sure that she will pass on in due course ,but at the moment with special attention she is having a pretty good life . trouble is if I do not give her this attention she would not survive. I feed her at least 3-4 times a day 2 meds and time out in the garden.
rest of the flock enjoying the summer . 1 broody and a couple that want to sit but I take the eggs away and they run away to the garden . Litalen is the most funniest hen when on a egg . She is so small but throws her tail forward like a peacock and head down chirping for all its worth. Pecks at me as well.
More hens out in the run at night . Cooler I suppose .They are safe and happy so let them get on with it . Boys waking a little later every day , I let the flock loose at about 4.30 am in the garden and the new boys quite down a bit. Takes their minds of crowing .Champ / Desmond are the boss boy`s Champ has been doing well for his age , one of my oldest in the flock . Rockie has a large hanging crop , always has had it . Rolls her head in circles moving her crop about. I massage it as often as I can and she is used to it and actually comes to me if she wants a hand with the crop.
Baldie the no feathered rear ended hen has sprouted Feathers on tail and is becoming fully feathered black hen . Will miss her bald rear end , but surprised she has grown them after so long of supporting a bear rear.
Goldie the bantam hen is a cuddly hen , Kitchen raiders are in full raiding mode and they RUN straight through to the front door and queue with cats , dogs to go out on the grass and rummage around. Joan is still looking big and pretty (Croydon ) Club from Clacton with Moe are doing well and her claws will need trimming as growing again , with a deformed claws they curly back into her leg. The two new boys are B...... they take food from my hand good as gold , turn my back and the y tag team my bum. I let them out now before dark and let them get on with it . Jack comes out before them and I put him back after a hour or so. Cats killed plenty of rats nad they are looking for more . Have to do some repairs to the wiring that goes under ground , which will be interesting as the hens will not leave the fork alone. Fish good in pond , I think the frog has the sense to stay under the netting .cats good and the dogs getting old .
Bob

[bikesandbirdsbob]

Hi all a quick up date on Mrs Woo.
Last evening I gave her , her meds , sweet corn and she was stretching her legs on the front lawn , with Capt. Chaos as company and a new girl yellow and /blue ring . I was distracted from watching them by a neighbour whom was getting a new car via myself .
Harley my Mastiff had gone inside and brought out a bone biscuit and started to eat it on the lawn . Mrs Woo decided , no idea why , that she fancied a bit of the crumbs . Harley being her disagreed with her thoughts and snapped at her . Fortunately she did not catch her with her mouth /teeth .
What it did do was scar the B -Jesus out of Mrs Woo . (she normally cuddles up with the dogs for comfort / safety.
With this she must have stretched her mouth wide open. Blood from her mouth poured out eve rwhere . I thought Harley had caught her . Neighbour called out in shock . Finished the conversation and I got about cleaning and checking Mrs Woo out . (After I gave Harley a telling off which she will not forget .
Close inspection of her , the canker that was on her mouth/beak had come off. Her beak that was twisted to the left (top part of beak ) had straighten out and was moving up and down . Blood was coming from where the canker had been. A hole on the corner of her right side and parts of her throat was the main concern.
Now the bottom line is . Due to this she can actually eat her self as this morning in her crop was PELLETS. Now I have to watch out that the open wound does not go mankie . I covered the wound on the outside with Vasoline to stop dirt . She is on meds so not much more I can do on that side .
After the first thoughts , I am now thinking that it is a case of she will either go down hill rapidly through sickness or she will recover so what .
I tried to give her sweet corn this am but she did not want it , gave her plenty of water squirted down throat (hot weather ) Felt crop had pellets in it (surprised ) .See her later on in morning and give her a good feeding /water .
CC is still off colour but eating sweet corn this morning .Healing up .Had a bit of time yesterday evening on a flat top coop watching the flock before bed time.
So more developments and possible end in sights to Mrs Woo , hopefully in a good way .
She did not die of shock and was healthy enough to go and look at food even if it was not hers....
Bob

[kitla]

what a shock. perhaps there's something you could put in her water that's has antiseptic qualities, tiny bit of acv or some herbs. I found a list of herbs for chooks. http://naturalchickenkeeping.blogspot.c ... ckens.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; Or you could ring your vet & see if they can suggest something.

[bikesandbirdsbob]

Hi trouble is , how much I can actually do for her . It is the canker that is the base problem . She may heal the wound but if I can not get rid of the canker it will all be for nothing .
While she has a good life / strength to continue than I will keep treating her .
She is a darling like all my flock .
I took a picture on my camera before it happened with CC next to her . In the picture it looked like CC was in worse shape than Mrs Woo. Night shifts next few days so can spend a lot of time with her.
This am I caught Jack and brought him inside for a half hour . did not crow once . But the others was awake and made up for him.
Jack is the early bird that gets the other boys up .
He sat on my lap as good as gold . I had a doze next to Mrs Woo and him on a chair. Still managed to get to work surprisingly for 5.30am.
Fed the dogs , cats , chickens , watered . Cut cabbage up , dogs out for a loo .
Even dressed before work (shorts and t-shirt , did not turn up in a dressing gown like I normally do.
Bob

[KarenE]

That sounds very hair raising! I'm not sure how I'd react to a bird bleeding from the mouth

Bob, why don't you try some copper sulphate? It's got to be mixed with water and acv but here's a link. If the meds she's on aren't working (could they be resistant?) it might be worth a shot

https://www.pets4homes.co.uk/pet-advice ... ultry.html