Which camp are you in?

Discussion on living for a better and more responsible future
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roddelmae
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Which camp are you in?

Post by roddelmae »

Very contentious issue this.....
But are you a 'Global Warming' theorist
or are you of the Ocean Cycle camp?
For definition of the latter, see Daily Mail website.
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Totally Scrambled
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Re: Which camp are you in?

Post by Totally Scrambled »

Difficult one.
I know there is a lot of evidence out there supporting Global Warming as a consequence of Man's activities, but there are also a lot of conspiricy theories suggesting the evidence is being skewed to provide Governments with an excuse to scaremonger and raise Taxes to "combat it" now that there is a reduced threat of war on a large scale as an excuse for Taxing the population.

Then there are other scientists who produce evidence showing it is all part of the World's natural cycle and that we don't have much of an effect. They seem to be suggesting that their reasearch is being suppressed, via lack of funding, to support the Governments view.

It seems to come down to whose evidence/theory you believe as you have no way of gathering the empirical evidence yourself.

At the end of the day I have come to the conclusion that I will do what I can to reduce the overall harmful impact I may be having without having to live in a mud hut and eat grass.

I am of the opinion, that although we may well adversly affect the planet more than any species has so far, that if we should overdo it the planet will swat us, recover and it will be another species' turn. The only way we can destroy the planet and everything on it is to toast it completely. If we pollute so much that it kills us I am covinced it will recover in time and carry on in another direction.

Blimey!!! That was quite deep for me. Having re-read it I think I should cut out the middle man and top myself now :-D
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Sunny B
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Re: Which camp are you in?

Post by Sunny B »

roddelmae wrote:Very contentious issue this.....
But are you a 'Global Warming' theorist
or are you of the Ocean Cycle camp?
For definition of the latter, see Daily Mail website.



I can't find "Ocean Cycle" on the Mail website, can you post a link to the article, please?

For what it's worth, imho I think we all need to stop our wasteful and excessive lifestyles, it's harming other people on the planet in all sorts of ways, whether global warming is a result or not.
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saint-spoon
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Re: Which camp are you in?

Post by saint-spoon »

undecided, I agree with arguments from both theories and also agree with sunn B about our throw away culture. Plastics, oil intesive farming practices etc are all destroying the natural world in one way or another.
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roddelmae
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Re: Which camp are you in?

Post by roddelmae »

Thanks Sunny. For you and anyone else who is interested, I don't know how to do the link, being a technological dinasaur, but if you go to the Daily Mail site, and search 'Global Cooling', you will find the article.
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Re: Which camp are you in?

Post by p.penn »

I really haven't looked into this yet so perhaps shouldn't be posting, but I can't help wondering that if the planet came out of an ice age (and then a mini one in Victorian times) why do we not accept that earth is evolving all the time - and although we have a view of evolution as 'improving' thanks to the acceptance of Darwin's theories, (which again were largely accepted as it echoed the socioeconomic changes of the time) it need not necessarily be so.
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bluebell
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Re: Which camp are you in?

Post by bluebell »

I agree with Helen. I do think we as a race are guilty of making things worse by overuse of chemicals/gases I cannot help but think that there is a natural evolution going on as well.
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lancashire lass
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Re: Which camp are you in?

Post by lancashire lass »

I'm not entirely convinced of the global warming theory - there has been a lot more extreme weather in the recorded past as already mentioned, and the earth's global climate shifts every several thousand years anyway, and according to scientists we have been "coming out of an ice age" and temperatures were expected to rise anyway (funny how that bit has been forgotten), which has nothing to do with man's activities. That is not to say I don't think temperatures are not rising - in the UK we may not get the BBQ summers, but we get a lot more rain & stormy weather due to the increased heat at the equator which drives wet fronts towards our shores, and we have more floods.

As for increased CO2 emissions having an impact on the earth's climate - well, yes and no. I accept that plantlife over billions of years have altered the earth's atmospheric chemistry, locking away carbon into what we now have as fossil fuels and increasing O2 levels which all animal life can benefit from. So burning fossil fuels will release the once locked up CO2 back into the atmosphere (which increases CO2 levels, then goes onto greenhouse effect/global warming/climate change etc bla bla bla) However, volcanoes spew out more CO2 and sulphur dioxide into the atmosphere at a far greater volume in one eruption than man can ever produce over several years and this doesn't seem to be in the equation. Man's activities alone cannot be responsible for a change in climate, but - I accept that it may well be compounding it.

However, step back for a moment and isn't it also interesting to note that some of our fossil fuel reserves are dwindling and how coincidental that we are heading for a global warming if we don't reduce consumption and oh yes, yet more taxes to pay - am I being a little cynical here?

Having said all that, there is only one planet that man can live on - sci fi dreams are not going to solve the problems here, so we should look after it and not foul our own nest.
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Re: Which camp are you in?

Post by Stig »

I'm a global warming theorist. I cannot claim to have a firm grasp on the climate science - the timescales involved are on an almost geological scale, so ALL sides of the argument are just theory.

However, the climate change argument puts government in a difficult position. Head to head with the oil and energy sector - some of the most powerful entities in the world, undoubtedly more powerful than governments. It's also been a rallying flag for the anti-capitalist movement, another thorn in the side of government. So I disagree with the notion that it is some sort of government invention to levy taxes on the populous. It's the other camp who have most to gain. If they can successfully discredit climate change then it's business as usual for the corporations and they can continue to exploit all Earth's resources in pursuit of profit and money.

I also think things have gone too far for us to influence them, and the path is now set. But the need to replace fossil fuels with renewable alternatives, and conserve what we have left, is more important than ever if we are to survive as a species.

As an earlier poster mentioned, the planet will survive whatever we throw at it. Not much comfort to me unfortunately - I'd like it to be a home for my children & their future families.
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Re: Which camp are you in?

Post by BodhisatvaJohn »

''but there are also a lot of conspiricy theories suggesting the evidence is being skewed to provide Governments with an excuse to scaremonger and raise Taxes to "combat it" now that there is a reduced threat of war on a large scale as an excuse for Taxing the population.'' Scrambled

I despair sometimes at peoples ability to believe the most utter tosh! If you are not willing to accept what the overwhelming amount of scientists throughout the world have verified to be facts, then nothing will convince you. Why pry, would all the majority of scientists risk their reputations to be involved in some mad conspiracy?

Oh yes, it's also true isn't it, that the world is flat, and pigs do, indeed fly and god sits up there on in his palace!

There are many good websites for anyone to look up, to digest the facts.
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roddelmae
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Re: Which camp are you in?

Post by roddelmae »

I cannot see how this is 'given fact' when there is so much disagreement lamongst scientists about it.
The sort of thing that removes its credibility is this

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... guess.html
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p.penn
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Re: Which camp are you in?

Post by p.penn »

I am not sure about how truthful science is.

We have come to see the term 'scientific' as truth itself which is far from the reality of it.
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Re: Which camp are you in?

Post by BodhisatvaJohn »

The Daily Mail has an agenda, pushed onto the editorial staff, by its owner, to come out strongly against man-made climate warming, because they know this appeals to it's middle England, right wing audience.

Last week, they ran a similar denial story, on their front page purporting to prove that the recent cold spell, was proof that the planet was not warming. Indeed, as evidence, they quoted a leading climate scientist, as saying that warming is not happening. When the Guardian contacted this scientist, he was angry and sad, that the paper he had written on global warming has been misrepresented by the Mail. The Mail, Express and Telegraph have an agenda of denial, they know that many of their readers are not willing to give up their cosy, and wasteful lifestyles.
There is a growing band of deniers, who are becoming more and more vocal and at the same time aggressive, in heir efforts to defend their untenable, old ways of living, which they know will have to change dramatically, if we are to end our exploitation of the planet.

If you believe anything you read in the Mail, there is nothing anyone could say to convince you otherwise. Remember, this is the paper who supported Oswald Mosley and the fascist appeasers before the war.

Please, read this item on the same Himalayan glacier story, from the Guardian and make your own minds up. http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/c ... n-glaciers
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Re: Which camp are you in?

Post by BodhisatvaJohn »

P.Penn

As a scientist myself, I can assure you that scientists will never, knowingly publish and findings they do not know to be proven.
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p.penn
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Re: Which camp are you in?

Post by p.penn »

Hi John,

That was not a personal dig at you! Just a social scientisit thing!

However, Galileo, amongst others, were known to deliberately falsify their findings and I could never say that I thought every scientist was honest. Money and status will sometimes corrupt.

I agree with you about the mail - on the extremely rare occasions I read a paper, the Guardian would be my choice.
Helen xx

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