Italians ban plastic bags

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Richard
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Re: Italians ban plastic bags

Post by Richard »

Not being cynical, but if we just make other things from plastic bags or containers of any description, they only have a certain lifetime, so sooner or later we have to dispose of them. It's just prolonging their existance?

Unless we are making something permanant from them, why not just destroy them now rather than later?

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p.penn
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Re: Italians ban plastic bags

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Because they will need replacing and more resources eg fuel will be needed to do so. I think.
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Richard
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Re: Italians ban plastic bags

Post by Richard »

I don't mean throwing them away 'as bags', I mean why make things from them which are going to stop serving that purpose after a few months. It's just prolonging the process.

All the time they can be used as a bag, use them as that and don't throw them away.

)t'
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Meanqueen
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Re: Italians ban plastic bags

Post by Meanqueen »

Richard wrote:Not being cynical, but if we just make other things from plastic bags or containers of any description, they only have a certain lifetime, so sooner or later we have to dispose of them. It's just prolonging their existance?

Richard


Everything we make has a 'life' and will be disposed of eventually. Do we stop making electric kettles because they will stop working and will need replacing?

The world is manufacturing far too much new stuff. We should be recycling every single thing we ever made. At the end of it's intended life new ideas should be sought to give stuff a second, third, and even fourth life, re using the same raw materials over and over again. The third world countries have got it right where they sift through piles of rubbish reclaiming anything that can be re used. We should be doing the same here, because one day there will be no more oil to drill for, forests to chop down, and minerals to mine. There will be nothing left.
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Richard
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Re: Italians ban plastic bags

Post by Richard »

I agree entirely, but with a kettle, the element goes, the casing is going to take years and years to break up, so that can be recycled for other long lasting uses.

Cars are a fine example, we dispose of them but they're made into other items and usually very efficiently.

What I'm saying is that for example, I don't throw away food containers straight away as I can use them for all sorts of things around the home and garden, but eventually they will not be fit for any purpose, so you throw them away. I have use from them so have made good, but it's not recycling, just using them for something else before chucking.

Your curtains into bags - great idea and definitely a grand idea. After the bags have worn away, you can still get use from them even if just on a Compost Heap.
But with plastic bags, beside using them as bin liners or storage, I say throw them away straight away. It's because people don't that we have rivers and woods plagued with the blessed things.

I'm like you Ilona, I don't throw away needlessly and I'm sure Heath Robinson would be quite excited about what you, me and others do.

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Re: Italians ban plastic bags

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I was told that within a few months here ( Spain) bags will, all be charged at 15c each....... yike* ( that was in a shop that gives then free)
I have some reusable ones and get as few as possible anyway, but I do get them as I use them for the rubbish, not that there is much, what with chooks, compost bin, and dogs/ cats. never could find the right size for the bin, so just dont buy any now ( apart from the strong large ones occasionally)

Ill have to find out a bit more and see what really is going to happen.
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Richard
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Re: Italians ban plastic bags

Post by Richard »

Hi Newto

That's good news. I think charging would be a good idea, but every Shop and Supermarket has to do it. This is where we go wrong I think, someone's always going to be the one's not to charge - maybe make it legal to charge and the money goes somewhere worthwhile?

I also feel there is confusion between frugal and recycling, they are different.

If we use an item for another use but it only has a certain short amount of life span anyway, that's frugal, not recycling - in my mind anyway.

Then there's frugal v thrifty, another hard one to separate!!

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Re: Italians ban plastic bags

Post by Steve the Gas »

What infuriates me - irresposible dog owners, they mostly collect the muck, bag it and they adorn trees like xmas decs }hairout{
Surely - even if the muck (without bag) is launched into a hedge bottom - it will decompose and not be noticed unless .................. everyman and his dog does it there too.
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Richard
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Re: Italians ban plastic bags

Post by Richard »

)t'

I know a chap who must have used about 1,000 plastic bags to make a rope, quite a good idea I thought, plastic is very strong and used in that way will last a long time.

Still not recycling though, just a good idea for another use of something, so frugal if you see what I mean, he'll have to throw it away some time or other.

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Re: Italians ban plastic bags

Post by jannie »

Richard wrote:Hi Newto

That's good news. I think charging would be a good idea, but every Shop and Supermarket has to do it. This is where we go wrong I think, someone's always going to be the one's not to charge - maybe make it legal to charge and the money goes somewhere worthwhile?


Richard


As of 1st Oct 2011 it will be the Law in Wales that every carrier bag will carry a charge of 5p..... surely the rest of the country will follow suit.. +confused+

http://www.letsrecycle.com/do/ecco.py/v ... emid=56805"
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Re: Italians ban plastic bags

Post by newto »

have done some googling.
havent yet discovered what the amount ill be. but. a new tax on single use bags was due to come in NOW. but has been put off till May.... this tax in Andalucia alone, is expected to raise 45.4 million euros in 2011 yike* ( doesnt say whether that was for whole year or just the 7 months that will apply!)
presumably if its a tax on single use bags then it will be on all bags ( bin liners, food bags etc. so I might have to stockpile a few!)
There are some of the biggerchains doing forsome time reusable, bags ( replaced when worn out ) but not round here! I wish I could sew, I´d copy Ilona´s ideas!

If shopping by car ( dont have one at the moment) I try get the cardboard boxes, and avoid the bags as much as possible ( they have always charged at least 3c where I shop) except the ones I take back again and again!
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Re: Italians ban plastic bags

Post by saint-spoon »

Meanqueen wrote: The third world countries have got it right where they sift through piles of rubbish reclaiming anything that can be re used.
Ilona

A slightly romantic take on what is essentially poverty stricken persons in the third world sifting through rubbish in order to make a few pennies so that they can eat that day. They do not do it out of an overwhelming need to save the planet but an overwhelming need to eat something or they will die. I have seen this ifrst hand in more than one country it is not something that make you feel good about yourself. Unfortunately the computer you are using has got a good chance of ending up on a dump in a third world country where some of the world’s poorest people will risk their health burning off the insulation so that they can sell the copper wiring and feed their families. Recycling out of necessity, not turning one thing into another for the sake of it.
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Meanqueen
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Re: Italians ban plastic bags

Post by Meanqueen »

We will not see recycling out of necessity (as in India), here, during our lifetime. But it will have to happen eventually when there is no alternative. I don't think that's romantic, just real.
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Re: Italians ban plastic bags

Post by Richard »

I have to say with the greatest of respect Ilona, I completely disagree with you.

You say the third World countries have it right, I wouldn't like to say that to one of those poor people who can't even afford a pair of shoes to wear when they're doing it.

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Re: Italians ban plastic bags

Post by saint-spoon »

I think that we are talking about two different things here MQ. I agree that as our resources are finite we need to recycle as much as possible and start designing recyclability into our products, it makes sense and will become more important as our resources dwindle further. When I posted about third world rubbish dumps and recycling out of necessity I was not referring to the need to save our resources but the real need of these people to reclaim anything they can from the rubbish dump so that they can survive; it is their job and if they didn’t do it they would starve to death. It is as simple as that.
Some people really are that poor that they will die if they do not spend their days sifting through rubbish on a dump and some aren't lucky enough to have rubbish dump to make a living on.
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