LL's chicken keeping adventures

[Chicken drumstick]

Hi LL

Mine have laid more since feeding the new mix , perhaps its just a coincidence for me as they had only just started laying really but i got 3 yesterday and 2 today , 8 hens but 3 sre x bats and i have a feeling they were older than 18 months and could be over 2 years old so i think there egg laying days might be over .

Not wormed my lot yet but have the stuff ready i think i will now do it after xmas .

[lancashire lass]

Hi LL

Mine have laid more since feeding the new mix , perhaps its just a coincidence for me as they had only just started laying really but i got 3 yesterday and 2 today , 8 hens but 3 sre x bats and i have a feeling they were older than 18 months and could be over 2 years old so i think there egg laying days might be over .

Not wormed my lot yet but have the stuff ready i think i will now do it after xmas .

glad to see your hens are laying regularly but I wouldn't worry about the x batts and suspect they'll restart in spring when it is warmer and longer days. I can highly recommend the worming regime - every week there has been an extra 5-6 eggs since the girls were treated and too much of a coincidence to be anything else.

Well, I haven't got round to sorting out the rat problem but with the festive season and atrocious wet and windy weather, I haven't felt much like venturing outside. When it was dry on Boxing day, it was foggy and only 2oC for most of the day, making it feel even less inviting.

Today it was very windy and although nothing on the scale that some parts of the country have been enduring, it was still rather scary. The tall ash tree in the neighbour's garden creaked and groaned, and the gusts were powerful and I felt the chicken run shudder. Luckily it is well sheltered in my garden with the tall privet hedge and shed and greenhouse so probably not as bad than if out in the open. Today it was actually mild and sunny despite the wind so I spent a little time with the girls. I noticed Scary seems to be still eating bum feathers but out of sight, possibly while in the coop, so the little extra protein doesn't seem to be working. Posh's bum looked even more bare with even the legs showing skin and looked a little sore so I decided to give her another purple spray treatment as well as more featherite on all the girls.

Despite a lovely treat feast to occupy them, the girls were not for easy capture (except Ginger who really doesn't mind being handled) Well I gave her a thorough drenching with the featherite which she decided she really didn't like but compared to the other two, was manageable. Next Baby - actually I thought she didn't look too bad but decided to give her another purple spray treatment followed by the featherite. I could have let her escape but decided to lift her off the high rise run and put her down in the main run with a little pile of treats just to let her know that there was a reward at the end ... it was not appreciated LOL. Posh by now was pretending to be engrossed with scratching for the last of the treats but she kept a wide berth from me at all times. In the end I grabbed her but once on the shelf, she did a great impression of a damsel in distress, flapping, squawking and squirming out of my hands - with both hands trying to hold her down, I needed a third hand to spray her so the only option was to use my left hand to wrestle her down. It was distressing to watch her but of all the girls, she was the one that needed the most treatment.

Meanwhile Scary had wandered into the coop while all this commotion was going on, and gracefully returned when it was all over in time to tuck into the last of the treat I put down on the ground hoping the girls would forgive me for all the trauma I'd caused. Apparently they are very obliging and happy to eat it all. As I left them to it, a quick check in the nest box and a nice warm egg for my troubles.

This afternoon I had a little kip on the settee and before I knew it, it was well after 4.00pm and by the time I'd gathered my wits to go outside, the girls were already in the coop even though there was still a little daylight left to see. I opened up the side door to peek inside and Posh, Baby and Scary were all bunched up together on the perch while Ginger was huddled on the coop floor near the door which she seems to prefer (or sometimes uses the ledge on the nest box) There was plenty of room on the perch and you'd think she was the bottom hen but after watching them all interact in the run, I'd say Baby was down the pecking order.

On Boxing Day I had gone to the allotment to drop off 3 weeks of chicken poop and compostables, and while there, had a wander round the plot. I say wander but more like slipping and sliding around with a lot of arm waving for balance. The cage over the brussel sprouts was leaning precariously and when I looked at other plots, mine wasn't the only one pushed over by the recent strong winds. I harvested one of the sprout stalks complete with leafy tops covered in white fly and been giving the girls some of the blown sprouts and leaves. There's not much else to harvest from the plot so I'll have to start digging some weeds up - probably the best excuse for weeding the plot if ever I heard LOL.

[sandy]

Hmmm Scary is living upto her name isn't she the little madam! If it persists have you tried udodex, my goodness that really does stink. I have a sneaking suspicion why maybe Ginger like to be on her own at light out

[lancashire lass]

If it persists have you tried udodex

I tried googling udodex but no joy (have you spelled it right?) - instead I found myself engrossed in research literature on feather eating instead Very interesting read - lots of theories but came down to:
(1) chicks reared with a broody hen were less likely to feather peck because they learn from an early age to forage and peck the ground
(2) white feathered hens are less likely to be victims than black/dark ones (something about not distinguishing colours in low light levels)
(3) chickens instinctively forage so if they can't scratch through litter, they can learn to start feather pecking which becomes habitual. Feeding high nutritious pellets in feeders is not natural behaviour for chickens (some impressive statistics that a hen normally pecks the ground over 15000 times a day) and this can lead to confusion
(4) cut straw is an ideal litter for chickens to forage and look for food
(5) it is thought feathers might act like fibre/roughage and some hens need to be fed high fibre feed to make them feel more full
(6) environment should be designed to reduce stress induced feather eating (this was probably aimed at commercial poultry farms) with places for individuals to find places to get away from others. Perches 70cm above the ground, and places under bushes should be provided to give a feeling of security

I have a sneaking suspicion why maybe Ginger like to be on her own at light out

LOL - it did occur to me that there might be a reason. If Scary is eating feathers, she is doing it out of sight and as they are cooped up for a good 14 hours every day (from about 4.30pm until 7.00am), then not surprising Ginger is going it alone.

This afternoon they got a sardine treat with the mixed corn which they all quickly wolfed down superfast (normally Scary would be racing around and butting the others out of the way to gobble it all down) Out of the blue, Scary gave Baby one almighty neck pinch that really must have hurt - she tucked her head down so low, for a moment she looked like headless chicken and was stunned for several seconds from the attack. Ginger is definitely a dodger and makes sure she isn't within beak range at all times. Posh doesn't do anything but if she gets within pecking distance, Scary moves away but obviously takes great delight in pecking the bum feathers at night LOL.

This morning when I was in the run, the door swung open and the crafty beggars decided to go for a walkabout. I kept an eye on them while cleaning and when done, threw some sprout tops and chickweed I'd dug up from the allotment into the run ... all but Scary went flying back inside but she was determined to grab one of the tree leaves before making her way back. Oh, I nearly forgot a funny incident when I went down to lock them up for the night - there was a lot of last minute eating and drinking, going into the coop and back out again. Scary was coming back out of the coop and hopped off the ladder but somehow completely misjudged the ledge of the coop run and came tumbling out and landed head first in the run (under the feeder) I have to admit there was a moment of concern but then I couldn't help burst out laughing.

[sandy]

Whoops I meant ukadex

[lancashire lass]

Whoops I meant ukadex

thanks for that - unfortunately it appears to have been taken off the market but there is supposed to be another spray that is very similar called Scarper. Still very expensive (especially with the postage) but I did find it cheaper on e-bay @ £8.49p + £3 p&p .

[lancashire lass]

With reference to Chicken Drumstick's "Food for Thought" topic, I have been doing more feeding research and hemp seed seems to be one of those superfoods for not only people but chickens too. Flaxseed (linseed) increases omega-3 in eggs, but if fed too much can taint eggs with a fishy flavour so I've only been giving the girls a small handful mixed with black sunflower seeds every other day. Hemp is another seed which can increase omega-3 without any problems to both hen and egg, and also has a high protein content with all 9 essential amino acids present so looks like it is worth investigating further. In this research paper, there are a couple of tables detailing fatty acid and amino acid content comparable with other seeds, and the 2 most important amino acids in laying hens (methionine and lysine for egg production and feather growing) are very similar to soy. It also has high Vitamin E, phosphorous, potassium and magnesium content too. A quote from the article

Animal feeding trials
Recent feeding trials with chickens have confirmed that hempseed is an excellent source of nutrition for laying hens, where the omega fatty acid profile in egg was favorably influenced after feeding hempseed meal. This is in agreement with empirical observations over thousands of years in China and other Asiatic nations.

I called in at Holland and Barrett's this morning to get some stuff that was on special offer (1p offer - buy one, get second for 1p) but even so, the hemp seed was a bit on the expensive side. In an ideal world, I would try and grow stuff but hemp (which is related to its narcotic cousin but doesn't contain tetrahydrocannibinol) can only be grown under license. I didn't realise it was used for fishing bait too, and buying in bulk might be the way to go.

Another superfood seed worth looking at is chia - it is a small seed so will need to be mixed in a mash, but a little bit too expensive for buying just to feed chickens. The good news is that it can be grown as a sprouting seed indoors with equally good nutrient content, and apparently easy to grow outdoors. So I'll try and give these a go. The breakdown of chia nutrients are HERE and on wikipedia However, apart from several articles blagging about the health benefits, there is no data on the amino acid breakdown other than it is high in tryptophan (an essential amino acid in human diets), and there is even suggestion that despite it's recommendations by several health sites, digestion of the seeds loses some of the benefits. The higher polyunsaturated fats content however, do get a good rating.

I also bought a few more bits and pieces from H&B so all spent up now. Meanwhile this morning I collected 4 eggs and once again, taking it up to 28 eggs this week (the maximum I could expect from 4 girls over 7 days) I managed to sell a dozen eggs on Thursday when I went back to work, with an order for another dozen on Monday, and I'm sure I'll be filling my order book next week. I hope my customers appreciate the health benefits of the eggs after all this research LOL

[KarenE]

Would hemp flour work do you think, if mixed into a mash?

[lancashire lass]

Would hemp flour work do you think, if mixed into a mash?

I think the benefit of hemp seed is the inclusion of the essential fatty acids, but when this is pressed and milled, the flour would have a higher protein content. I suppose if the chickens need extra protein, hemp flour could be a good alternative.

[lancashire lass]

Well, I'm not sure if the addition of hemp seed to the feed has been good or not. Until I buy some in bulk, the amount is only small anyway and more like a small treat, so probably not having that much effect. I did wonder for a moment if the subtle change in diet was affecting egg laying - for 6 weeks after the girls were wormed, the egg tally has been about 26-28 eggs a week from 4 girls, but this past week there was a day when there was only 2 eggs, and 3 the next day ... just when my customers were asking for eggs after the Christmas break. Today I spent a little time with the girls and gave them a little check up but all are well. I think the drop in eggs may have just been sheer coincidence - I can't expect them to lay an egg a day every day, so maybe 2 girls decided to have an off day, and one of the others the day after LOL

Meanwhile I noticed Scary is still having a midnight snack of bum feathers despite the extra feed and the feather spray, and I'm now beginning to wonder if the coop is perhaps on the small side giving her opportunity to help herself as and when she feels like it. I thought about building an extension to the coop by removing the roof off the coop run and putting something on top of that with a permanent opening from the coop? With it being 1.2 metres long, a long perch in there would give them all ample space. I am giving the Scarper spray some consideration too!

Yesterday I finally bought some wire mesh to start laying on the run floor to stop the rats from digging down. I had a bit over from the original run build and by the time I cut it to size, realised I had more than enough for the coop run where there is an entry hole from the fence side, with a hole that dives under the back of the coop under the nest box. I had to do a partial dismantle of the coop and run to be able to get access to the entire floor so that I could get all the sand and wood chips up down to the brick layer I had laid down in the base. At the time of the building, I was more concerned about foxes and never gave rats a thought, so there are convenient gaps between bricks where the rats have been able to tunnel through. This has definitely been a steep learning curve for if and when I go for a second run. After laying down the mesh, I put down some of the paving blocks I'd gathered from the allotment to act as weight anchors before putting the sand and wood chips back in the run. I tried to distract the girls with a treat at the other end of the run but when it was gone, they were very curious of what I was doing. My 4 helpers inspected the run, were concerned that the ramp to the coop was missing, pooped and decided the big tub where I had put half the sand/wood chip would make a good dust bath Finally, I cut 3 lengths of wood and screwed them down on the fence where there is a small gap where rats or mice might be able to squeeze through. I did find a distinctive hole that looks like an entrance which I temporarily blocked but I'm almost sure that measure will get moved - rats are incredibly intelligent.

Today I might give the allotment a miss except for the poop and compostable visit and try to get on with the main run. When I was dismantling the coop roof, there was a small mite which I squished - I'm almost certain it is just some bug from the garden as it was on top of the roof in broad daylight, but still, after the girls went to bed I must have tossed about 2 kg of DE all over the run and on top of the coop roofs I usually put some sanitizing stuff down in the main run every Saturday evening to rake over the next morning - by the time I'd finished, the run floor was like a layer of snow in the gloom LOL.

[lancashire lass]

The girls have had a busy day helping me lay the floor today so it wouldn't surprise me if they have a good sleep tonight LOL. First thing this morning it was very cold and frosty, and remained about -1oC until about 10am. After I'd raked the soil in the run and let the girls out to a breakfast of warm mash, I got on with giving the coop a complete clean out. Although I poop pick every day and the bedding looks fine and dry, underneath it was caked on to the base board so I used the scraper to lift and bag up. Despite a tasty treat to keep them occupied, all 4 girls decided to pile into the coop to see what I was doing. And worse, my hands were cold so I really wanted to get the job finished as soon as possible. After bagging it up, I then opened the new bale of Bliss bedding. Wow, the smell of peppermint was very noticeable and in the coop, it reminded me a little of Vickes vapour rub. I put a good thick layer down, and of course, once again the girls piled in to have a look see I think it met with approval.

Next, the main run floor. The girls scratching has got a bit out of hand and the cherry tree roots were standing proud. So as well as covering the floor with mesh to prevent any rats digging, I also had to put mesh round the cherry tree base to protect it from further damage. Starting at the back, I had to shovel a lot of earth towards the coop and tried to level it off for the mesh ... at first the girls were really happy with just scratching the big pile of earth I'd created but then they wanted to give me a hand digging the rest of the floor. It got to the point where I had to be careful where I raked or used the spade as often a chicken would be in the way. Finally, mesh down and butted up to the wall and pallet fence, I used the paving blocks I'd been collecting from the allotment to weight it down. Not the best block paving but it should stop the girls scratching up the mesh and the rats shouldn't be able to dig down and get past the block barrier.

Boxing in the cherry tree roots was a bit more difficult as at this point the girls were waiting in anticipation for further digging and clearly enjoying my participation in their scratching, and they did it with such enthusiasm. No sooner had I dug a trench to fold the mesh down, they were in it and digging it further - I think Scary finding an earthworm was reward to pursue this fun activity. I'm seriously tempted to make a temporary run for the allotment and take them along to do the digging - they did a much better job of the digging than I ever could.

I didn't make it to the allotment today as I really wanted to get the floor finished - if I had left it half done, the rats would probably find those areas and I'd be back to square one especially if they got under the mesh/paving. There was just one more task I wanted to do but it was getting late - where I had cut holes in the corrugated roof for the cherry tree branches, one of the troughs cannot be diverted and rain water pours into the run. When the girls scratch, dry soil clings to the wet patch and forms into a solid smelly mound. I had a light bulb idea of moving one of my chimney stack planters and putting it directly underneath so that water could fall inside and keep the rest of the run dry. Also, I can fit a tomato plant pot in the top so it was going to be a way of growing some greens and pop the pot on top for the girls to feed on. I didn't have time to do that but instead, moved the stack into the run and laid it down on its side by the cherry tree so that it was like a tunnel - Baby freaked out, flew into the door which swung open and all 4 girls went rushing out.

It was getting dark so I let them enjoy this temporary bit of freedom while I finished off in the run. I got a wedge of wood and hammered it into the gap under the fence which looked suspiciously like an entrance so hopefully, the only rat(s) are somewhere in the run to be dealt with in time. I do so hope we can get on top of this problem once and for all as it has been a hard lesson to learn

I probably spent more time in the run today than I have done any other time, so I was able to see how the hierarchy was running. Scary is very much the bully, and even Posh has been on the receiving end despite being top hen. Scary gave her a hard peck but she got one back so backed off, but later she tried to peck a tail feather when Posh had her back to her. Baby has been on the receiving end of Scary's neck pinches for much of the day - it is sad really because she is such a docile hen. Ginger on the other hand is a lot more nimble and wary and managed to dodge that beak, but even she got caught a couple of times. And you couldn't say they were bored today, and they got plenty to eat too. Hopefully when I make a proper start on the run make over, there'll be plenty of bolt holes and places to go, and I think I will order some of that Scarper spray at the same time as clearly Scary is not going to stop her bullying.

[sandy]

You have been busy! Put your woolly gloves on the radiator then put them on and then double up on disposal gloves, hands will be warm I have been told to put wire /steel wool in any ratholes, awaiting someone who can mix concrete better than me. Down with Rolands

[KarenE]

What a pain in the whatsit Rattie is being for you - that sounds like an enormous amount of work to get through.

Naughty Scary - her nature's taking after her name by the sound of things. Perhaps she's continually making a bid to be top hen? It's awful to see behaviour like that - I think I've been dead lucky with all my girls so far, I haven't had any truly naughty hens. Perhaps as you say, plenty of hiding places and maybe take ChookMike's tip of seperation baords (out of sight, out of mind). Some girls also seem to do better in larger flocks, where their behaviour is less concentrated and maybe Scary is one of these too? Not that that helps you much unless you can increase the size of your flock or consider rehoming her to a larger flock if it gets out of hand.

[lancashire lass]

Put your woolly gloves on the radiator then put them on and then double up on disposal gloves, hands will be warm

up until then, we've never really had it cold enough to put woolly gloves on but yes, sounds like a good idea for the next time we have sub zero temperatures

I have been told to put wire /steel wool in any ratholes, awaiting someone who can mix concrete better than me.

wire wool sounds a clever idea. With regards concrete ... I was looking at postcrete - the sort you use for setting fence posts in, and normally doesn't need any pre-mixing but sets solid inside the hole (I think you fill the hole with water so that the soil is damp - not that you need to do that if it is already wet - pour the powder in, and the concrete absorbs it and sets)

Naughty Scary - her nature's taking after her name by the sound of things. Perhaps she's continually making a bid to be top hen?

Maybe - she is a large hen compared to the others (Posh is the smallest which is surprising to think she is top hen) Most times Scary is fine, pecking and scratching along with the others and you would be none the wiser of her true personality. There's no fighting or chasing, they all dive into the treat which I scatter about the run so that they all get opportunity to eat something - sometimes the others are brazen enough to grab whatever she is eating straight out of her beak - and no-one argues over the feeder or drinker so they all have access to food and water without a fuss. But out of the blue she'll do a mean neck pinch on Baby for absolutely no reason just because she fancied doing it.

Perhaps as you say, plenty of hiding places and maybe take ChookMike's tip of seperation baords (out of sight, out of mind)

The first few days of getting them, both Ginger and Baby were nearly permanently on top of the pallet shelf out of the others reach, so I built a high rise run and they got their own space and things improved immensely. But I think Baby is a chunky bird and now older, can't fly up to the shelf (or fly down gracefully like Ginger, but lands like a sack of potatoes with her rear end up off balance LOL) I know Ginger spends some time on the high rise run every day because I always find a few droppings there. So I'd like to build another "raised run" just underneath that one, and have a series of connecting ramps/ladders - so it should increase floor space by having multi-levels and give the girls room to be away from each other without being totally separated. Well, that's the plan.

Not that that helps you much unless you can increase the size of your flock or consider rehoming her to a larger flock if it gets out of hand

Early days yet but I am seriously considering getting some more Point-of-Lay in September but will need to build another run/coop and make more space available for foraging etc. Since getting the girls, I've learned a lot of what to expect so hopefully improve the design this time round.

[sandy]

I love your plans LL I will get post crete this week, trouble is hole goes down then horizontal, reckon Roland and friends have lots of burrows now!