Dig for Victory !

Gardening to 'grow your own food' from square foot to half an acre !!
User avatar
Richard
Lord Lane of Down...... Site Owner
Posts: 30037
Joined: 26 Apr 2007, 22:48
Gender: Male
Location: Ashford, Kent, UK

Dig for Victory !

Post by Richard »

Apparently we're all supposed to be busy digging our gardens at present.

See me digging before about mid February and in this weather you'll know something's wrong :-D

But I know I should.

Richard
New Member? Get more from the Forum and join in 'Members Chat' - you're very welcome
User avatar
lancashire lass
Legendary Laner
Posts: 6527
Joined: 28 Jun 2007, 15:17

Re: Dig for Victory !

Post by lancashire lass »

if you have saturated clay soil, probably the worst thing you should be doing is digging as you are more likely to compact the soil. If you feel the need to do something, may I suggest forking over which would help to break up the soil surface (providing you are not walking on it of course) and / or adding (old/used) compost / manure. I mention "old" such as from container growing because the fibrous material will add organic material to the soil without risk of losing precious nutrients from winter rain and snow. In early spring you can then add fresh (+ fertilizers if necessary) about 3 weeks before sowing seeds.

However, now IS the time to plan your plot and gather fresh seed - in about 6 weeks (weather permitting and condition of soil - little point doing anything if the ground is frozen or too wet), some people can be thinking about planting potatoes! So why not start chitting them on windowsills now. Or, start sowing sweet pepper & chilli seeds indoors to get them off to an early start. For tomatoes, wait until there is better light - roughly 6 weeks before you would plant out in greenhouses or outdoors (as a rough guide, if you plan to put in a greenhouse in mid-late April, then sow about early-mid March, and for outdoors at end of May sowing would be about early-mid April) If you have a cold conservatory or greenhouse, you could start off cabbage and lettuce seeds which are quite hardy for an early crop. Also broad beans - those sown outdoors in autumn may have grown too much by the mild conditions and got damaged/diseased by the strong winds and rain.
User avatar
Spreckly
Legendary Laner
Posts: 5826
Joined: 26 Mar 2011, 14:21

Re: Dig for Victory !

Post by Spreckly »

OH did his digging in November. The land is heavy clay and sodden with the never ending rain.
Freeranger
Legendary Laner
Posts: 3171
Joined: 17 Apr 2012, 10:13

Re: Dig for Victory !

Post by Freeranger »

We live at a height of 325m (1100ft?) so it's cold and wet, and our soil is heavy.

The older gardening books say to dig in late autumn, like Mr Spreckers, so that the frost gets into the soil and breaks it up. Others say not to leave it exposed and to plant a green manure to dig in in the spring.

I'm confused.

1) If you grow the crop, will the soil still be cloddy when you dig it in?
2) Do you want decomposing plants in the soil when you're trying to grow new ones? (I think it uses (or adds?) carbon until the've rotted down?)
3) While it's rotting in a heavy soil, will it go mouldy?
4) Have I missed the point?

I belong to a gardening group but they're all quite accomplished - I get a bit embarrassed with my basic questions.
User avatar
lancashire lass
Legendary Laner
Posts: 6527
Joined: 28 Jun 2007, 15:17

Re: Dig for Victory !

Post by lancashire lass »

Freeranger wrote:Others say not to leave it exposed and to plant a green manure to dig in in the spring
Freeranger wrote:1) If you grow the crop, will the soil still be cloddy when you dig it in?


depending on the crop, roots penetrate the soil so in some ways it helps when forking but does not really change the soil quality (ever tried to weed when the soil is very wet and claggy?) You'll probably find using a spade will be the same as before - I struggled with the standard spade on clay soil and now use what is known as a ladies or border spade because it is narrower, which is so much easier to use but I've heard lots of people rave about mattocks which is the same principle if you need something to help with the digging.

Freeranger wrote:2) Do you want decomposing plants in the soil when you're trying to grow new ones? (I think it uses (or adds?) carbon until the've rotted down?)


good question - basically, decomposition involves soil bacteria and fungi and in order to multiply to take advantage of the new food source, they need nitrogen (to make protein and enzymes) which they take from the soil (ever hear about how digging woody stuff "robs" the soil of nitrogen? Same thing really) When the decomposition is complete, the nitrogen is returned (plus more) as the micro-organisms die off. So growing plants in soil that has just been dug over with a green manure is not a good idea. You need to wait at least 6 weeks (give or take - the warmer the soil, the quicker but if it is cold which clay soil can be, then longer. Put a black plastic sheet over which the sun will warm the soil underneath and speed things up a little)

Freeranger wrote:3) While it's rotting in a heavy soil, will it go mouldy?


not mouldy like fruit, but fungi will spread mycelium out. Most likely the earthworms (which multiply in soil with lots of vegetable matter dug in) and soil bacteria will be very active

Freeranger wrote:4) Have I missed the point?


Not really. If you dig in the green manure in say early spring (March), then the bed will hopefully be ready for planting up in late May/June (good for summer crops) But if you want to rush out and sow seeds in March/April, it could be a problem and seedlings might struggle at first. Potatoes on the other hand have a food source (the tuber) which it will use up to spread roots and push up green growth. You could compensate for early nitrogen loss by adding say chicken manure or other fertilizer to the soil and by the time the plants are established in May/June, the green manure should have been decomposed and nutrients accessible. The key however, is water - some years we can have a dry spring and this can show decomposition down. So make sure the soil is moist until ready for planting.
Freeranger
Legendary Laner
Posts: 3171
Joined: 17 Apr 2012, 10:13

Re: Dig for Victory !

Post by Freeranger »

Thank you for the detailed reply, LL - that's really helpful.
User avatar
mardatha
Lively Laner
Posts: 441
Joined: 18 Jan 2011, 16:30
Gender: Female
Location: scottish hills

Re: Dig for Victory !

Post by mardatha »

Freeranger I'm at 300m on a Scottish moor. You and I can close our ears to the rest of them starting their gardens in Feb lol - I plant my tatties at the end of April! {cry}
Freeranger
Legendary Laner
Posts: 3171
Joined: 17 Apr 2012, 10:13

Re: Dig for Victory !

Post by Freeranger »

Hello, fellow countryman!!

We're just a wee bit higher on Southern Uplands. We first moved here in May and I stuck some tatties in rubble sacks to grow. A local farmer came by and said that it used to be common for the farmers to change tenancies on the last day of May. Everyone kept a kitchen garden, so they put in their tatties straight away and did get a crop that year. A friend also advised me to plant early varieties of everything so they have time to grow and ripen during our very short growing season.

Last year LL gave me a wonderful tutorial on dealing with clay soils (thanks again, LL), and this year I intend to get some of the garden organised. I think I'm going to have to be quite focused on extending the season and improving drainage - hot beds, cold frames, raised beds, cloches etc. - rather than just digging & planting open ground.

I think I also need to cover some of the ground to keep the rain off - so cold and wet.
bmpsands
Legendary Laner
Posts: 2660
Joined: 01 Mar 2012, 15:54
Gender: Female
Location: Buckton, East Yorkshire

Re: Dig for Victory !

Post by bmpsands »

OH dug our veggie plots over as they emptied before Christmas and we covered them with the contents of the chicken shed's weekly clear out. At the end of last week he did a bit of a "fork over" but we're a long way from planting anything. I do have a spare bedroom which contains all the usual fitments plus 2 egg trays of chitting potatoes.
Bea; 19 hens (most of whom I intended to get); 6 bantams (which I never intended to have); old Benji dog and young Toby dog (who I definitely wanted). Three years into country living and loving it.
User avatar
mardatha
Lively Laner
Posts: 441
Joined: 18 Jan 2011, 16:30
Gender: Female
Location: scottish hills

Re: Dig for Victory !

Post by mardatha »

I think that's a good idea freeranger and wish I'd done that when I had the strength. It's a constant battle for me, all the goodness in the soil is washed away downhill as we're on a hillside. Every year I have to buy compost and fertiliser and fork it in... and feed all my flowers all summer.
User avatar
lancashire lass
Legendary Laner
Posts: 6527
Joined: 28 Jun 2007, 15:17

Re: Dig for Victory !

Post by lancashire lass »

a couple of years ago a friend living near Aberdeen had use of a walled garden where he grew lots of stuff you would not normally consider suitable for outdoors such as chillies, winter squash, sweetcorn, tomatoes and had amazing harvests. The trick, apart from making use of the south facing brick wall (warmed up in the sun and slowly released heat overnight so tender plants nearby were protected), was to grow them in cloches/mini greenhouses arranged so that the centre was open and sheltered for the sweetcorn.

A trick a lot of people on my allotment site do is cover their potato beds about now with plastic sheet - the ground does need to be prepared with lots of compost/manure dug in first, and make sure the soil is moist before covering. I found covering the soil with a layer of cardboard before putting the plastic over acted like insulation. As the sun's heat is absorbed by the plastic, the heat will penetrate deeper and warm the soil up so potatoes can be planted a couple of weeks earlier. The downside is the risk of a late frost when the plants are growing - but if grown under fleece/cloches (and earthed up), they should be fine but is more work. I think tunnel cloches would be the way to go when growing potatoes further north/inland where the risk of late frosts (end of May/early June) are highest.

Freeranger wrote:Everyone kept a kitchen garden, so they put in their tatties straight away and did get a crop that year. A friend also advised me to plant early varieties of everything so they have time to grow and ripen during our very short growing season


Certified seed potatoes are usually grown in Scotland because risk of aphids are lower (they can spread viruses by the way they feed on plants) so you should be able to grow late crops too. My friend in Aberdeenshire religiously plants Pink Fir Apple (a very late crop) - his biggest problem seems to be risk of blight but he does use Bordeaux mixture (a copper sulphate mix - not good for the environment IMO) to treat the plants throughout the growing season.

Why not consider having a polytunnel like the one in this topic started by HensAloud - the advice from Bill was very helpful when choosing the frame and was much cheaper than one with a polythene type cover. I think you might find it useful to extend the season
Freeranger
Legendary Laner
Posts: 3171
Joined: 17 Apr 2012, 10:13

Re: Dig for Victory !

Post by Freeranger »

Thanks for the good advices again, LL. Please don't laugh if anything I now say is stupid.

I try and garden organically, so wouldn't use Bordeaux mix, but think there are leaf-based infusions you can make that have the same effect. Still too much a beginner for those but will get around to it. Perhaps for now, I might spread them out more and thin foliage.

I'll have a look at the polytunnel item - thank you.
User avatar
Mo
Legendary Laner
Posts: 15368
Joined: 30 Apr 2007, 09:39
Location: Cheshire (nr Chester)

Re: Dig for Victory !

Post by Mo »

I know thinning the foliage would improve air circulation. But would it also provide a wound for infection to get in?
I do pull off any leaves that look dubious though.
Dance caller. http://mo-dance-caller.blogspot.co.uk/p/what-i-do.html
Sunny Clucker enjoyed Folk music and song in mid-Cheshire
User avatar
lancashire lass
Legendary Laner
Posts: 6527
Joined: 28 Jun 2007, 15:17

Re: Dig for Victory !

Post by lancashire lass »

Freeranger wrote:but think there are leaf-based infusions you can make that have the same effect


Blight appears in warm humid conditions and spores are dispersed in the wind - I'm afraid the only answer is prevention rather than cure (1) use a copper based fungicide (2) use a fungicide such as Dithane 945 (which I thought was against EU rules but Amazon seems to be still selling it - I could be wrong about its legal usage) or (3) grow blight resistant potatoes (such as the Sarpos - some people like them but grown on my plot they taste rubbish) Leaf based infusions are not well researched and I have my doubts, although there has been a lot of talk about aspirin which you treat BEFORE blight appears (as in, make it a routine spray) - apparently it helps to build up an "immunity" in treated plants so they respond quickly to an attack. Ooh, found a newspaper article about the aspirin. I've never tried it so don't know if it works, but considering it is salicylic acid, as in, originally from willow bark before it was commercially synthesized, I suppose it can be assumed the original role was to protect the tree from pests and diseases rather than as a painkiller LOL
Freeranger
Legendary Laner
Posts: 3171
Joined: 17 Apr 2012, 10:13

Re: Dig for Victory !

Post by Freeranger »

Interesting. We have a lot of willow trees here. Wonder if you could make an infusion of those?
Post Reply