Getting very confused and having some doubts.

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Garden_Witch
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Getting very confused and having some doubts.

Post by Garden_Witch »

I'm a prospective new chicken keeper - obviously I'm holding off atm until things are a little clearer regarding avian flu but I'm getting more and more confused by the DEFRA rules. I was directed to this on another forum today:
https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... y-2017.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I realise that no one actually knows what is going to happen but I'm starting to think it's possible some requirement to keep chickens indoors or at least in covered runs could become permanent. My plan was to have three or four hens living in an eglu and run attached to a walk in run (which I already have) but give them supervised access to a fenced off part of my garden during spring and summer and allowing them free access to most of the garden in autumn/winter when they can do a "clear up job" for me. It's starting to sound like this isn't going to be something that fits in with DEFRA rules. I have a professionally installed cat secure fenced garden and six cats so I don't feed birds in the back garden and have never actually seen a bird in my garden - they are probably too clever to come anywhere near my six killing machines - thought I do have feeders set up in my front garden.

I'm starting to have some doubts about the whole thing now :?

How big would a Walk-in-Run have to be if it was housing 3-4 hybrid hens permanently? Is there a larger scale map so I can see exactly where I am with regard to risk? I've been planning my hens for a long time so I'm disappointed this is happening - I don't even know if there will be chickens for sale even?

Trev62
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Re: Getting very confused and having some doubts.

Post by Trev62 »

This map may help......

http://www.gisdiseasemap.defra.gov.uk/i ... an/map.jsp"

Cannot help with the rules in England as things are managed differently here.
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bikesandbirdsbob
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Re: Getting very confused and having some doubts.

Post by bikesandbirdsbob »

HI ,no. 1 do not panic . It all sorts it self out in the chicken world , I can assure you.
If you go on goggle type in DEFRA UK then go on the flu link and you get the up dates . Get stuck come back on here and someone will help.
3/4 hens could live in a small coop Maybe with an extra extension on the run bit . Walk in runs are for those people who take chairs tables picnic s in to share with the flock . You can clean a small coop easy . Will need to get a rake and ground cover , change when ruined . Put a wire on bottom or footing`s , Concrete paving round it . It is a case of what you can fix up. In the real world we would like to put the girls on a island fortress with chicken heaven inside but we are in the real world so we do the best we can .
As for the chickens , try and save at least one hen .They will return their thanks many times over . They come in all shades of BROWN.
Hope it helps . It is not as bad as it seems .Just not what we got used to.
Bob
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KarenE
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Re: Getting very confused and having some doubts.

Post by KarenE »

I can understand your doubts, it's a difficult time at the minute and to be honest a right pain. Don't give up yet though

Regarding space - the more space the better in the run, it's better for introductions and if you are building a permanent structure from scratch I'd strongly recommend you make it as big as you can, and walk in as it'll make life easier for you and wil give the chicken height to also use (perches and raised platforms etc are good). Solid roof to keep the bird poo out, even if it's just a tarp. As Bob's advised, keep an eye on security froim foxes too. The recommendation is around 10sq ft per bird I think, but really give them as much space as you can possibly afford, especially if this ban becomes a regular or permanent thing. With enough space and things to keep them occupied, not free ranging isn't the end of the world. Plus, a walk in run with plenty of space means you've got enough room for a chair, and to spend ages with them, which is the whole point of chicken keeping apart from eggs!

If you do want to give them some free range time in the garden, assuming you're not in a high risk or controlled zone (see the interactive map http://www.gisdiseasemap.defra.gov.uk/i ... an/map.jsp" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; ) then you should be fine fencing off an area for them, perhaps putting some netting over the top to keep birds out. Also you could sanitise the ground - stalosan f is good for general cleanlines, and virkon is a defra recommended disifectant you can use to disinfect the ground just to be on the safe side.

As for bird sales, I think they're okay as long as not in a controlled or high risk area, and I think the same goes for rescues but who knows at the moment, things do seem to be changing.

Hope this helps )t'
Karen
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Chief servant to Marley the cat
Remembering Weeps, Rexie, Sage, Cassie, Toffee, Captain Gabby, Commander Nugget, Ronnie, Juno, Special Poetry and Reading Casper, Tigger, Tophenanall Rembrandt, Chestnut, Tiddly, Willow, Mango, Coco, Dorian Grey and Pokey.
Also my lost furries Charlie and Jasper
Garden_Witch
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Re: Getting very confused and having some doubts.

Post by Garden_Witch »

Thank you for the replies, they do help. I really, really want to do this - I have been planning my chickens for over 2 years but have had to wait until I moved here and got sorted out.

I've looked at the map - I'm outside the coloured areas which is good I guess but it all feels like a lottery as to where it will strike next. I already have a 2 metre x 2 metre Omlet walk in run which was used for bunnies (only two left now, sadly, and they now live inside for the winter after which they'll go into my other identical run). The run has had the roof and sides covered since I moved here 18 months ago. My plan is to either extend the walk in run to 2 metres x 4 metres and put an eglu cube inside OR add an eglu and 2 metre run to the side of the current set up - whichever is cheaper, hopefully second hand. I definitely like the idea of sitting in the run with them as I've always done that with my rabbits - I just want the girls to have a bit of freedom too.

Thanks again for the advice, I'm not giving up yet!
bikesandbirdsbob
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Re: Getting very confused and having some doubts.

Post by bikesandbirdsbob »

Hi two things . My rabbit lives with the flock . maybe you could put some chickens in with the rabbit .
Next if you rescue a chicken it is still alive being spoiled by you which has got to be better than in a bread coated bucket . Worse case would be adrive out for me to re home them ......
Bob
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KarenE
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Re: Getting very confused and having some doubts.

Post by KarenE »

Hi

If you have a look on the homes needing hens section of the forum someone's giving away a coop & run if you can pick it up from Cheshire. I'd go for putting the coop in the run, it's slightly more secure and if you ever can't get home in time to lock up the coop at least you know the run is safe )t'
Karen
Alpha chick to: Smudge, Matisse and Bluebell
Chief servant to Marley the cat
Remembering Weeps, Rexie, Sage, Cassie, Toffee, Captain Gabby, Commander Nugget, Ronnie, Juno, Special Poetry and Reading Casper, Tigger, Tophenanall Rembrandt, Chestnut, Tiddly, Willow, Mango, Coco, Dorian Grey and Pokey.
Also my lost furries Charlie and Jasper
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kitla
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Re: Getting very confused and having some doubts.

Post by kitla »

I second everything said. I'm guessing that any rescues still happening may be struggling to find people to take the hens at the moment, I bet alot of folk are putting it off because of the restrictions. It that's the case any hens you rescue would be doubly lucky. Or were you looking for pullets of a particular breed or hybrid?
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Garden_Witch
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Re: Getting very confused and having some doubts.

Post by Garden_Witch »

bikesandbirdsbob wrote:Hi two things . My rabbit lives with the flock . maybe you could put some chickens in with the rabbit .
Next if you rescue a chicken it is still alive being spoiled by you which has got to be better than in a bread coated bucket . Worse case would be adrive out for me to re home them ......
Bob

kitla wrote:I second everything said. I'm guessing that any rescues still happening may be struggling to find people to take the hens at the moment, I bet alot of folk are putting it off because of the restrictions. It that's the case any hens you rescue would be doubly lucky. Or were you looking for pullets of a particular breed or hybrid?


I am registered with BHWT but, as I understand it, their rehomings are all suspended until the "lifting of DEFRA restrictions" whatever that means - there's no mention of bird sales or gatherings in the stuff I've read? My ideal scenario would have been two ex-battery hens and two hybrid Point-of-Lay hens - not easy for a newbie as it means introductions, quarantine periods and then there's the fact that the BHWT only rehome a minimum of three! So I had thought I'd buy three Point-of-Lay hybrids and think about rehoming BHWT girls later when I have more experience but I'm now thinking that all the avian flu stuff might be putting potential rehomers off and there are going to be a lot of ex batts not finding homes which makes me very sad. It was the BHWT that initially attracted me to chicken keeping.

KarenE wrote:Hi

If you have a look on the homes needing hens section of the forum someone's giving away a coop & run if you can pick it up from Cheshire. I'd go for putting the coop in the run, it's slightly more secure and if you ever can't get home in time to lock up the coop at least you know the run is safe )t'


Sadly I have a tiny Fiat and live a long way from Cheshire so I don't think that will work for me, but thank you for posting it. There are a lot of Eglus on eBay and Gumtree - some ridiculously priced almost as much as a new one - I like the raised ones best but could easily make a platform to raise up one of the cheaper floor standing ones if I'm putting it inside an enlarged run. I think I'll work on extending the run first - new it would cost me £200 which isn't ideal but I do have a 6ft "Welfare hutch" to sell on eBay - they are really expensive to buy new so it might go some way towards paying for the run extension.

Thank you for all of your enthusiasm!
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lancashire lass
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Re: Getting very confused and having some doubts.

Post by lancashire lass »

When it comes to free ranging and gardens, just be a little aware of the destructive properties of chickens! Autumn / winter sounds good for turning over flower and vegetable beds - not only scratch over and de-weed but also take out the pests and "manure" at the same time. But do make sure permanent plants in the garden are not poisonous - there was once a debate about the intelligence of chickens knowing what is or not safe to eat ... personally, I'd veer to the cautious.

KarenE wrote:Solid roof to keep the bird poo out, even if it's just a tarp


with regards to a permanent run, also keeps the rain out! Especially when we get a particularly wet pattern of weather and deluges ... I seem to remember a couple of years ago that some runs were mud baths.

The DEFRA advice sounds regimented and strict but like a lot of things in life, once you work within the rules they are not so bad and are there for a reason, but I don't think they are that inhibiting. I went for permanent runs because I'm at work all day and wanted to make sure my girls were safe from foxes as best as I could. When you see chicken behaviour, most of the day is spent scratching and dust bathing - you add a bit of variety to the run with some perches and raised balconies to make use of the walk in run height and they will be happy with that. And they enjoy fresh greens too - hang up a cabbage or other leaves and they'll have fun pecking at it.
Garden_Witch
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Re: Getting very confused and having some doubts.

Post by Garden_Witch »

I've done a bit of reading re chickens and gardens - I love my plants too much to give them absolute free reign and have experience of the destructive capabilities of four rabbits allowed total free reign last Autumn! My plan was to fence of my raised beds and patio when I grow a lot of food plants and give them the other side of the garden in spring and summer where there are more mature shrubs and herbaceous plants that can take a good kicking. I'm going to try and grow a lot of my stuff in the front garden for the first time this year - it's easily as big as my back garden and is on a private unpaved road so its very quiet. And no rabbits or chickens to eat everything!
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kitla
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Re: Getting very confused and having some doubts.

Post by kitla »

I'm still getting emails from Homes4Hens about rehoming dates, all recent ones in Scotland so not useful, but shows there are still the odd one going ahead. A quick look on preloved found some in lancs & somerset (but quite a few "wanted" ads). Also I've seen hybrids & pure breeds for sale at a local garden centre. What region are you in? If one of us hears of a rehomeing in your area we could let you know. I wouldnt be surprised if some general rescue centres have alot of hens now because of the defra rules. I know of one local place that sometimes finds them dropped over the fence in the morning.
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Minxy
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Re: Getting very confused and having some doubts.

Post by Minxy »

Hello!

I have 12 birds and I keep them in a modified 8x6' shed on an allotment plot. I've had all types of coops in the past, but I tend to come back to a shed. It is walk in which makes cleaning so much easier. Mine has two windows, so two are fixed and the other two were not fitted, I just have rabbit wire up at them so that there is plenty of air flow. The whole plot is enclosed by Heras fencing with a gate and wired around the bottom. I've had no sign of the local foxes even bothering to try! It is covered over with bird netting to keep wild birds out. As they are up at the allotment and not in my garden, I splashed out on an automatic pop-hole opener (cut a hole out near the door and installed it there). Saves me getting up at silly o'clock and driving over there in the Summer!

I guess the point of sharing this is to show you how flexible the whole situation can be. Having a big shed option like this means that if I want to close them in (such as with bird flu alert), they still have a decent amount of room to move around, until they are allowed out in their enclosure again.

I hope that is of help.
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