Covid again - a couple of interesting articles

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fabindia
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Re: Covid again - a couple of interesting articles

Post by fabindia »

What really gets me about the Trump handling of the virus is the way he referred to it as the 'Chinese' virus. For goodness sake, the so-called 'Spanish Flu', which killed more than Covid has so far, had nothing to do with Spain, and in all likelihood it originated in the USA.

I don't pretend to be an expert but it seems to me that the majority of these viruses originate from either close contact with intensively farmed animals or the illegal meat trade in wild animals.

We need more vegetarians and vegans! Or, at the very least organic naturally farmed livestock. I can't imagine us getting anything from Cumbrian hill-farmed lamb - it's way too cold there!
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manda
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Re: Covid again - a couple of interesting articles

Post by manda »

fabindia wrote: 02 Jan 2021, 02:46 What really gets me about the Trump handling of the virus is the way he referred to it as the 'Chinese' virus. For goodness sake, the so-called 'Spanish Flu', which killed more than Covid has so far, had nothing to do with Spain, and in all likelihood it originated in the USA.
I won't talk about the vile and disgusting thing that is the Trump because I don't want to have to kick myself off the forum {rofwl}

The "Spanish" flu I think originated in Kansas - first known case was reported at Camp Funston in Fort Riley, Kansas apparently.

That being said as I said before it makes no difference where it originates from once it's here it's about how we deal with it. We have such improved medical care, knowledge of how viruses work and ways to stop it in it's tracks that there really should be no excuse for it to still be spreading ....BUT.... it all depends on the will of Governments and the people and if you don't have that then you have the situation we have globally now. I sometimes wonder what NZ would be like if we didn't have Jacinda as PM. The National party is all about business and economy which, whilst that is obviously important, I don't believe it should come above health. No people = no economy so take care of your people first and deal with the outfall after.
People may argue that but the evidence is clear. Yes there have been people made unemployed . For example: tourism has been hit hard but they are being propped up as much as the Govt can and kiwi's are being encouraged to holiday around the country and get to know their own backyard. The unemployment rate hasn't risen to the heights they thought it would.
Whilst we are not leaving NZ (and truth I don't want to) we are pretty much living our lives. Of course we will never know what it would have been like if National were in the hotseat but they were pushing for borders to open much quicker when Public Health were saying no...I know who I think was right (just in case you're not sure which way I think....National )grin2( ).
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manda
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Re: Covid again - a couple of interesting articles

Post by manda »

fabindia wrote: ....I don't pretend to be an expert but it seems to me that the majority of these viruses originate from either close contact with intensively farmed animals or the illegal meat trade in wild animals.

We need more vegetarians and vegans! Or, at the very least organic naturally farmed livestock. I can't imagine us getting anything from Cumbrian hill-farmed lamb - it's way too cold there!
I think the problem has been the supermarkets - they have created the mindset that everything should be available to us as we want it whether that is safe or not.
Most people wouldn't want to know how their chicken came to be on the shelf and everything it went through before it got there.....What they can be sure of is it didn't involve sunshine and green fields. They are often also dosed up with antibiotics as a preventative measure that is easier and cheaper than dealing with individual illnesses at a later date.
Those wonderful discoveries that would protect us from bacteria just aren't doing it so much anymore Multidrug-resistant bacteria are becoming more common - everyone has heard of MRSA I'm sure - the antimicrobial resistance in animals in our food chain is undoubtedly a threat. infections transmittable between animals and humans = zoonoses and it is well documented the concerns that have already been raised (way before SARS-COV-2). Animal agribusiness has become a breeding ground for disease, factory farms are a public health menace.

There is much to support that we should not be farming any animal intensively for the sake of humans, the animals and the environment. Now all we need to do is get the consumer to stop expecting meat at every meal, whatever they want, whenever they want and we'll be all good.
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Re: Covid again - a couple of interesting articles

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I have been saying for years re horses and dogs being wormed on a regular basis even though no one was sure whether they had 'any' worms let alone the ones they were being dosed for.
So, surprise, surprise when the wormers do not work when these animals have worms. Well to me it was not rocket science. If you keep pumping stuff into them eventually the thing you are trying to eradicate will become resistant, well now for the past few years they have been trying to find different wormers etc because that is just what has happened.
At the end of the day I do not take a Paracetamol if I do not have a headache or pain, so why use any medication if the problem doesn't exist? Absolutely ridiculous imho.
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Re: Covid again - a couple of interesting articles

Post by Meanqueen »

For those interested. May I suggest having a look at this.
https://www.iceagefarmer.com/

We do indeed need to cut back on meat consumption, and asking people to go vegetarian does not work. It takes years to convince them. We are at a time now where meat production will be compulsorily wound down.

Manda you said it makes no difference where the virus originated from. I beg to differ. I think it is highly suspicious that thousands of people in China can celebrate New Years Eve gathering in the streets to watch the fireworks. No masks, and no vaccines. Work it out for yourself.

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lancashire lass
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Re: Covid again - a couple of interesting articles

Post by lancashire lass »

At risk of being told that I rubbish other people's posts, I would like to highlight the following:

In 2003, there was a serious outbreak of Sars (severe acute respiratory syndrome) in the Far East where hard lessons were learned - that involved applying strict controls and isolation of the public, tracking cases and quarantine. So those same countries have been well-prepared in dealing with the current Sars Covid.

Now compare the politics and social attitude of people living in China to the West - can you imagine the British bobby with the government's blessing being allowed to thrash and intimidate people to stay in their homes or risk more serious consequences and detention? China is an emerging superpower - the days of displaying the military might of Communism is now accompanied by a global economic success which it is not going to give up lightly. And the ethos of a population to do what is best for the country by complying and adhering to those controls has been beneficial in driving down the infection rates. Capitalism in the West where individuals and private companies control the economy and politics of countries also values its freedoms, liberties and rights - under lockdown, all of these have suffered, markets have reacted and unemployment has risen. To appease growing unease amongst the population, governments have opened up their economy and eased restrictions of people's movements far too early while infection rates were still high. Take for example, the USA and Brazil where controls were not put in place and the inevitable high mortality rate and an ongoing epidemic. The UK is not much better. Those countries with strong governments that maintained stricter quarantine even if the economy slumped, are now able to lift restrictions and move on while the open border policy of Europe are now facing a 3rd wave.

And that's why people in Wuhan were able to celebrate the New Year in the streets while countries in the West were told to stay home.
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Re: Covid again - a couple of interesting articles

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I have always said that any head of government no matter what country they are in knew how to deal with this outbreak. Like you say LL the countries who have seen something 'similar' and I use that word very lightly, have drawn from that experience. Our mistake in this country imho was that our country and others that had no 'experience' to draw from should have looked more deeply and followed other countries that had. That to me would have meant a longer first lockdown when people were willing to follow the rules more closely. Yes it would have meant more unemployment etc earlier, but we possibly would not have had such a long extended period like now because we have allowed this virus to spread further.
We have done so many U turns it is unreal. Had we formed a plan which included looking at and implementing what other countries had done earlier we would be in a much better position now in all areas imho.
Even now the education people are asking for a non return to schools and from what I read it seems they are being ignored, so round and round it will go until someone, somewhere grabs it by the throat and follows a set course.
To me it is down to 'common sense' which sadly in this day and age people do not seem to have.
Even looking at parenting if parents say no and then do a U turn you end up with unruly kids doing all sorts, just the same imho as Boris doing U turns throughout this which has lead to people ignoring regulations/rules even if it is for their own and others benefit.
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manda
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Re: Covid again - a couple of interesting articles

Post by manda »

Gwenoakes wrote: 02 Jan 2021, 11:55 I have always said that any head of government no matter what country they are in knew how to deal with this outbreak.
If they don't then the scientists do and so do public health and so do epidemiologists...this is about standing back (leaders being able to put aside their egos) and allowing those who know how to handle it actually handle it.

Meanqueen wrote: Manda you said it makes no difference where the virus originated from. I beg to differ. I think it is highly suspicious that thousands of people in China can celebrate New Years Eve gathering in the streets to watch the fireworks. No masks, and no vaccines. Work it out for yourself.
ilona
From a management point of view it makes no difference Ilona and I am not interested in speculating where or how it orginated because it's here and it's how it's managed that is now important (as far as I'm concerned).

How it was managed meant that we were able to have Christmas and see in the New Year and we are able to move freely around the country and between the two islands in NZ...it's about management.
When this settles down I'm sure people will still be blaming / theorising but what good will that do? It could have started anywhere (given as a species we factory farm so much) ...Look at BSE that started in the UK - cattle infected by being fed meat-and-bone meal - we made a herbivore become an omnivore. Our gift to the world a disease with an extremely long incubation period in the cattle and then in humans the new variant Creutzfeldt–Jakob disease (vCJD) with an incubation period of months to years, during which no signs are noticed. Average life expectancy following the onset of symptoms is 13 months. It still causes problems now and who knows how many were infected as a result because noone knows until they are diagnosed with it.

Anyway I digress...the bottom line is if we carry on the way we are there will be so many more of these viruses to come globally because food producers manipulate food production to not only supply but to turn the biggest profit they can and manage production by mass administration of antibiotics so they don't have to deal with diseases down the line...the amount of antibiotics floating around our systems is why we are now having issues because our diseases aren't responding to the AB's...so they solved one problem but created a whole other huge one but nobody shouts about that too loudly and the evidence is there. This could have come from anywhere (potentially) - yes the chances are it was from the wet food markets in China (and they have done something about that now) but it could just as easily have come from the US, UK, Mainland Europe - with the movement of people now and I wonder what the response would have been then.
Meanqueen post wrote: For those interested. May I suggest having a look at this.
https://www.iceagefarmer.com/
I've read many things from this site and I go back to what I said previously - supermarkets have made us as consumers "expect" that we can have whatever we want whenever we want. We need to return to seasonal crops, supply not always meeting demand (because that is not a reasonable way to think and is easily demonstrated to be hugely wasteful).
I will not buy fresh veggies from our supermarkets - the packaging dates tells me that some salad stuff for example has been packed 2 weeks prior and has been sitting in a cold store - you get it home and it lasts sometimes only hours. That is things they can't hide....I'd rather do without than eat that.
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(¸.✰´¨(¸.✰ Manda

Living our version of the Good Life with 4 dogs, 6 cats, a cow, a few sheep, Angora Goats and ???? chooks.
Don't get your knickers in a knot..it solves nothing ~ just makes you walk funny
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