Thoughts for the new year - the plastics problem

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kitla
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Thoughts for the new year - the plastics problem

Post by kitla »

When I heard that China was refusing to take our poor grade plastics my first thought was that most of it probably came from China in the first place! So I did some googling, & found actually the biggest plastics companies are American followed by Saudi & Switzerland. So being as President T is unlikely to do anything helpful for the environment, it's a good thing that China is trying to clean itself up - (most of the waste plastic in the sea comes from that part of the world). But this is going to be a big problem for the UK, we're trying to find other countries to send it to (India?) for now, just a sticking plaster, this will surely force us to change our habits - like with the plastic shopping bags. I'm expecting some kind of tax on certain plastics and other hard to recycle packaging by the end of the year, maybe causing move back to glass & cardboard for some things.
I put our recycling boxes out this morning, (we've had a bunch of my son's friends staying for the week plus their N/Y eve party) I was horrified by the amount there was - 3 very full boxes! Even without a party we always have alot, so on a personal level I'm starting to think about how I can change my shopping habits. Lots to think about!
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Re: Thoughts for the new year - the plastics problem

Post by albertajune »

As you say a lot to think about and I don't think that anyone, anywhere knows how to get rid of this problem. I do think that the amount of packaging around some goods is obscene and manufacturers should be made to use the minimum amount needed. I'm sure that paper packaging could be used in some cases rather than plastic.
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Re: Thoughts for the new year - the plastics problem

Post by p.penn »

I have been thinking about this too. I can’t help feeling that the main responsibility lies with the manufacturers and companies that utilise plastic products. I don’t understand how they can create a problem and leave it to others to clear up their mess
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Re: Thoughts for the new year - the plastics problem

Post by Mo »

I have a nasty suspicion that cash strapped councils will start lobbying gov to let them off the landfill tax and that will be that. Short term politics wins.

We can't recycle plastic bags anyway - and so much of my packaging is e.g. sliced bread.

It really is up to governments to put pressure on firms (who see their main responsibility as getting bigger returns for shareholders). What individuals can do is very limited and complicated.
I know that our council doesn't recycle polystyrene cups but our choir uses them - 70 drinks to serve in the 10 minute break, what else can you do? I started looking to see what the recyclable alternatives were but it's not as simple as it seems.
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kitla
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Re: Thoughts for the new year - the plastics problem

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I dont think its a case of cutting out ALL plastics (yet). In the first instance it's the poor quality, hard to recycle stuff that UK needs to clamp down on, that's what China is refusing to take. If there was a small tax on certain plastics the products using them would go up & people may be more likely to buy the alternatives. Infact if the pressure was on, more alternatives might become available. I predict that this time next year there'll be alot more glass bottles of things available & they will be regarded as better for our health than evil plastics.
Well for my personal contribution I'm going to make an effort to visit the local butcher more often - or use the counter at the supermarket rather than buy prepacked. I'm also going to buy a few reusable, dishwasherproof drinks bottles, and try & use more tupperware containers rather than plastic bags. For me it's about breaking lazy, bad habits.
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Re: Thoughts for the new year - the plastics problem

Post by manda »

I would love to know how packaging has been allowed to increase as much as it has over the years - given the issue of landfill is not a new one and plastics inability to breakdown has been up there for just as long.

It's nice to see that in NZ the supermarkets - after being harassed by customers are now going to ban the plastic bag. Reusable bags are readily available for those who are above using the cardboard box (which one of our supermarkets is great at putting near the checkouts so you can use them instead of bags).

What I don't get is how new / recent products with over packaging are allowed....we have a company here who produced individually wrapped prunes!!!

I think because we live rurally and so have to pay for our rubbish removal here we are very conscious of the amounts we bin (putting aside wanting to be kind to the planet)....it has made us think a lot more. I don't put things like the loose carrots into a bag they don't need to be in one.
I've also vowed sometime ago that any unnecessary packaging that I was able to remove in the shop I would....if they're not going to demand their suppliers use less packaging then I'm going to make them pay to get rid of it and not me.
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Re: Thoughts for the new year - the plastics problem

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Only read briefly through all the above, but what sprung to my mind straight away was when we buy all these things so well wrapped in whatever, why don't we say, just take one thing out of its packaging and leave it in the supermarket? If every customer did this then the amount of waste would greatly increase for the company and possibly make them think about what they are buying in and how it is wrapped. After all these companies do have to pay to have their packaging removed, so maybe hitting them in their pocket would wake them up and tbh they carry far more weight than the individual householder in this chaotic world.
As for cardboard boxes we always used to use them but they are nowhere to be found in the supermarkets we visit now, apparently when asked they send them for recycling and get paid for it.
Or, we could go back to when I was small, many moons ago have brown paper carrier bags and smaller brown paper bags and glass bottles for everything. Pay more to have them when purchasing things in bottles, but get a refund when you take them back to the shop you bought them from.
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Meanqueen
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Re: Thoughts for the new year - the plastics problem

Post by Meanqueen »

It's inevitable that more products are being sold, more people means more sales, but something should be done to curb the size of the packaging. Often boxes and bags are half full to give the impression you are getting a lot for your money. I often shake the contents before I buy to gauge if it is value for money or not. When I hold the bag up and squash the contents to the bottom I often find it is full of fresh air.

The idea that we buy a lot of new packaging from other parts of the world, then pack it up into containers and send it to third world countries is absolutely ludicrous. We should be buying less and recycling everything here.

This reminds me of something I saw on a walk in 2011. Packaging baled up at a factory in Lincolnshire.

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kitla
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Re: Thoughts for the new year - the plastics problem

Post by kitla »

I know one of the solutions being looked at is burning it to produce energy, even if they filter out the emissions that sounds a bit worrying to me
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Re: Thoughts for the new year - the plastics problem

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As others have said, the responsibility should be with the manufacturer but also they are dictated to by the companies they supply. A big start would be to ban all the vegetables & fruit from being wrapped up, absolutely no need for it & also (as said above) use the minimum amount needed for bags of frozen veg, etc. I think we just seem to live in a throw away society these days & from what I see of neighbours recycling efforts it is often (NOT ALWAYS) the younger families that aren't bothering as much as us older people & its their children that will suffer. Something has to change but it needs everyone on board from manufacturer down to end user.
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lancashire lass
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Re: Thoughts for the new year - the plastics problem

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Gwenoakes wrote:what sprung to my mind straight away was when we buy all these things so well wrapped in


tell me about it! Those little electronic things that come in moulded sealed plastic (so they can be displayed on hooks in the shop) such as a tiny media card about a cm squared in packaging about 20 cm + squared ...

Meanqueen wrote:The idea that we buy a lot of new packaging from other parts of the world, then pack it up into containers and send it to third world countries is absolutely ludicrous. We should be buying less and recycling everything here


I agree! I was shocked when I heard we were shipping our rubbish across the globe for someone else to dispose .... It's not just a plastic problem but a carbon one as well (remember those "air miles" of bringing in fresh produce from abroad and vice versa)

wildlifemad wrote:Something has to change but it needs everyone on board from manufacturer down to end user.


The poor end user might not have any choice - they are buying the item not the packaging - but manufacturers of goods should be encouraged to find alternates to their packaging requirements. And end users are not necessarily individuals but can be companies or public bodies (like councils, hospitals etc) who are under pressure to buy value for money. We have a "sustainability" purchasing policy at work where we can only buy from certain suppliers, but if the quote from elsewhere is a fraction of what we'd normally pay then that policy is not worth the paper it is written on.

manda wrote:I would love to know how packaging has been allowed to increase as much as it has over the years - given the issue of landfill is not a new one and plastics inability to breakdown has been up there for just as long


if not longer {cry}

I think the driving force are the big supermarket chains and companies - they are all about dominating the market with low prices and driving out the smaller businesses. A small hardware store / ironmonger cannot financially compete with the likes of Wickes, Screwfix or B&Q. Now if you just want some screws for a job, you have to buy a big box (in moulded plastic - they could just as easily be sold in a cardboard box) instead of individually to do the job. In the big companies, it is all about high turn around (profits etc) - so manufacturers (or food suppliers) are under obligation to supply goods which are secure (not so easy to get into some plastic packaging for electronic goods or contaminate foodstuffs), easy to handle or display and so on.

If I was honest, I can see how some plastic has benefits over alternates. If you want the good old days, how about having injections from re-usable glass syringes instead of the disposable ones and risk infection. I've had nearly 4 decades of working in laboratories - in the early days of microbiology, everything had to be washed, packaged by hand (in paper or foil, or flask bungs made of cotton wool that you had to make yourself which in itself was a health hazard breathing in fibres) before sterilising. The amount of work spent just on preparations was phenomenal but then came along disposable plastics which are ready to use with no risk of contamination and so on - it was quite revolutionary, with better use of time and energy than spent on preparations and allowed rapid advancement in certain fields.

As for going back to recycling glass bottles - in one way I'm all for it, but then I think about the ones who don't recycle. Perhaps it is the areas where I've lived in, but glass bottles have been used as missiles (usually by kids) to smash against walls and roads or people .... seeing broken glass everywhere (taking the dog for a walk and trying to avoid it) has declined at about the same time the plastic bottle started to replace them. I don't know what the answer is, but I certainly don't like the idea of revisiting old problems.
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Re: Thoughts for the new year - the plastics problem

Post by wildlifemad »

On the news this morning they are suggesting that England extend the charge for carrier bags to all shops not just the ones that employ more 250/300. I don't know why this wasn't just done in the first place as in Scotland & Wales. LET'S NOT THINK ABOUT IT JUST DO IT!!
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Re: Thoughts for the new year - the plastics problem

Post by kitla »

I hadnt thought carrier bags were still a problem now. I & most people I know use strong shopping bags instead, I sort of presumed most people do this now - but maybe I'm just not very observant. I do miss the carrier bag recycling points that seem to have disappeared when the 5p charge came in. No matter how I try I still end up with a bunch single use bags every so often that I dont know how to recycle, it really bothers me throwing them in the bin.
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Re: Thoughts for the new year - the plastics problem

Post by Gwenoakes »

From what I understand about the plastic carrier bags the usage has gone down 90% since the introduction of the 5p charge, so if that is the case where are all these bags coming from?
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Re: Thoughts for the new year - the plastics problem

Post by lancashire lass »

Gwenoakes wrote:where are all these bags coming from?


corner shops, small shops, mini supermarkets (as in a small local one with just a passing trade on essentials rather than visibly seen from a main road) - you can still get them from there

Then there's the flimsy bags (like you can find round the fruit & veg aisles - quite frankly, they could go into paper bags like the mushrooms) which are available in all supermarkets. So many times I'm asked if I want my raw meat purchases in one of those bags when my groceries are going through the till .... which is ridiculous because the meat is already in a sealed plastic container (a rigid base with a film on the top) so there shouldn't be any leakage anyway.
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