bewildered new veggie gardener

[Chookaholic]

Hi

Im looking to plant some veggies and have never planted at this time of year before. Any suggestions? The soil is good as nothing has been planted in it for a long time and it is where ive always tipped ash when weve had a "burn" plus it has been covered with old carpet it is lovely crumbly black soil .

My intention was to sow directly into the ground though ive been told i will have to plant out established plants at this time ...im at a loss

[Mo]

You can plant cabbage to mature in spring. I'm not sure if it's too late to transplant sprouts or winter cauliflower.
BBC site says
"You can sow broad beans from October onwards, but make sure the ground is not frozen. If it is, you may need to lay some polythene or other material down to warm it up.
By sowing in autumn you can have beans as early as May, but watch out for frost as this can easily claim your hard work. Cloches, polytunnels or fleece are worth keeping on standby just in case the temperature drops."
Rhs http://www.rhs.org.uk/Gardening/Grow-Your-Own says plant onions now. And sow Spring cabbage, Chinese cabbage, radish and turnip.

[Chookaholic]

Thankyou Mo. Am I right in presuming what I plant now is for next year?

[Mo]

Yes I think so. Radish is quick, and old radish is tough, hot and horrid so maybe you'd get a crop of those (though it might not be salad weather by the time you did)

[Chookaholic]

Thankyou very much . Him indoors loves radishes that blow your tastebuds apart and make your eyes water. We eat salad all year round too . Think a greenhouse is next on my list

[lancashire lass]

whereabouts are you Chookaholic? The further south you are, the more chance of squeezing in some crops to harvest autumn/winter. You can sow maincrop turnips (golden, green top or even purple top milans as they are quick growers if you sow now), carrots (preferably small ones like Paris Market and under fleece to give them added protection and warmth to encourage quick growth - do it sooner rather than later as it is starting to get a little late), lettuce (these are hardy winter varieties such as Valdor, Cocarde and Winter Density) and mustard greens like Pak Choi, and there are winter radish varieties (well, I only know of Spanish Black and the variety I grew last year called Wiener Runder Kohlschwarzer from Real Seeds catalogue is more like a turnip for cooking. Rapini also from Real Seeds (you can search online for other stockists - aka Kailaan or chinese broccoli) is more like a turnip than broccoli, produces small broccoli like sprouts and is ready for cropping in just a few weeks (earlier if we get an Indian summer) Even the leaves are edible.

Buying plants - too late really for summer crops as most of these are well on their way to being harvested. Even if you sowed say peas, there is a risk of the plants going mouldy before you get a crop off them. You might be able to buy some cabbage plants for winter cropping but again, getting on the late side as they need to bulk up before the frosts and cold stops growth. Much too late for brussel sprouts - even if you found someone who sold them now, they are likely to be too small to be productive by winter.

I'd say you are looking at overwintering now for spring harvests - be aware that spring does not mean March/April in the growing calender, but nearer May/June .... you can sow onion seeds (Senshyu Yellow, Ailsa Craig, Hi Keeper F1, Di Savona or Giant Zittau) NOW (not later than 5th September), or wait until October to buy onion sets (online or cheaper from Wilkos or garden centres) For new veggie gardeners, sets are definitely easier to grow. They will bulb up in May, ready to lift by mid-late June. Please note that this means the patch of ground will be occupied just when you would like to use it to grow summer crops like peas, carrots, beetroot etc. On the other hand, you could grow things on in pots and plant them out as soon as the ground is vacant - things like courgettes, toms, sweetcorn. Oh, and spring onions - a winter hardy White Lisbon variety can be sows from February through to September for cropping most of the year

Shallots can be planted in October but to be honest, I get a much better crop if I wait until March/April - there's a saying "plant on the shortest day to harvest on the longest day" which I once did and I also planted some in spring. The spring ones were much more vigorous and bulbed up better than the winter planted which when you think about it, just sits in cold wet soil until temperatures improve so very prone to rot.

Overwintering broad beans is not for everyone - but if you sow, aim for mid-September, and it would be a good idea to have them under a cloche to protect them from the worst of the winter weather - they are cold tolerant, but not truly winter hardy and tend to go downhill in long spells of heavy snow, deep penetrating frosts and whiplash from strong winds damage the stems/leaves and encourage diseases. You will get an early crop from the beans than from a spring sown one, but only by a matter of 2 or so weeks. I'd rather wait until late winter (February/March), and sow some indoors to encourage germination (most seeds need at least 10oC to germinate) then harden them off outside as quickly as possible.

It might be possible to buy cauliflower plants for spring cropping as there are some hardy winter varieties.

[Chookaholic]

Wow thankyou Lancashire Lass you are full of knowledge.

Im in Cheshire , i was going to fill it with shrubs but looking at the soil it seemed a crime to waste the patch: right outside my kitchen window and gets full sun until around 4pm .

I dont want to plant then it all rots in winter as it can be VERY damp oop north as I am sure you are aware . I do have fleece etc so i will try the carrots and maybe cabbages under tarp to protect from frost? (i really have to stop removing things from peoples skips though that will come in very handy)

I would have wondered where my Spring crops were to be honest I didnt realise they would be available so much later in the year so thanks for that. Id have been a little sulky and calling my veggies names

I will plant some onions too for next year and i have a lot of vacant pots and a wall that is in full sun all day so toms and maybe a fig would be great there.

Thanks again ! Maybe I can pick your brains in the future

[lancashire lass]

you're welcome

Oh, nearly forgot garlic (how could I?!! .... I usually grow loads of it!!! ) Have to say bulbs are expensive (average £5 for 2 - might be cheaper in Wilkos/GCs) which you split into cloves and plant them in autumn (I aim for mid-late October - just enough time for the cloves to throw roots out and maybe up to a short 1 inch green shoot but I don't want them to grow much after that until spring) A cold winter (snow and ice) is perfect for triggering clove division so no need to put fleece over, and they seem to bulk up a lot better than spring planted ones. The one thing I'd suggest is make sure the soil is well draining - bulbs don't do well in wet boggy ground and easily rot. I'd highly recommend growing an early variety such as Early Purple Wight - and after harvesting (about late-May to mid June), don't forget to save a couple of bulbs for planting the following autumn. Purple Wight is a "soft neck" variety - these tend to have long storage right through to about February/March the following year. I wouldn't recommend Supermarket garlic as they are commercial varieties that may not be suited to a wet British climate, and often the results can be disappointing. Like the onions and shallots, after lifting, garlic will need to be dried (basically hang somewhere warm and dry, preferably in the sun for 2-3 weeks, or maybe on mesh trays - you need air to circulate round them while drying) and then they won't rot so readily over winter.

As you can see I love garlic

[Chookaholic]

oooooh i love garlic! Put it in everything! I do plant supermarket cloves in my kitchen and snip the shoots and use like chives...very nice, but I have never thought of planting it outside so that will be a first for me too

There is a field drain in the veggie patch believe it or not so it is doesnt get flooded, thatll be great then for bulbs . I will be made up eating garlic i have grown myself .

Lancashire Lass you are now considered an Oracle to me !

Thankyou !

[Freeranger]

Kale grows well enough in cool, damp areas. Salady herby things could always be covered with a cloche or fleece quite easily and cheaply if the weather takes a dive, and you could grow lots of the herbs for drying and using over the winter. Turnips are quite quick, like radishes.

[Chookaholic]

So i could do herbs , kale , leafy veg under a cloche? .... it seems as long as i keep the frost of the leaves they will grow...Dont want to go into too much detail but i have a very low iron and folic acid count and have to eat dark green veg every day to boost my levels so to grow them would be great for me :)

Preparation has begun.... wish me luck!

[lancashire lass]

Oh, thanks for reminding me - I love kale ... must remember to sow some (I prefer to sow in pots and plant out when bigger). Kale is very winter hardy BTW so no need for cloche/fleece when it's cold - in fact, a bit of frost will probably make them sweeter. I would however, suggest you erect net cages over any brassica (cabbage, cauli, kale, turnip, swede, pak choi, mustard greens etc) as pigeons can be very destructive especially over winter when food becomes scarce. Even at this time of year, cabbage white butterflies are out in full force and laying eggs on all brassicas ... there's nothing worse than seeing your crops munched down to skeletons by the caterpillars so netting them would be a good idea (use a fine mesh net and try to avoid it being in contact with the leaves as the crafty butterflies still manage to lay their eggs through the net)

[mariat]

Oh, thanks for reminding me - I love kale ... must remember to sow some (I prefer to sow in pots and plant out when bigger). Kale is very winter hardy BTW so no need for cloche/fleece when it's cold - in fact, a bit of frost will probably make them sweeter. I would however, suggest you erect net cages over any brassica (cabbage, cauli, kale, turnip, swede, pak choi, mustard greens etc) as pigeons can be very destructive especially over winter when food becomes scarce. Even at this time of year, cabbage white butterflies are out in full force and laying eggs on all brassicas ... there's nothing worse than seeing your crops munched down to skeletons by the caterpillars so netting them would be a good idea (use a fine mesh net and try to avoid it being in contact with the leaves as the crafty butterflies still manage to lay their eggs through the net)

Do you know when the butterflies die out/hibernate? I have some bought kale plants waiting in my fridge to go out.