Where do you draw the line?

[lizziedoggarden]

My mum's little dog Rosie had to have kidney stones removed surgically last December, it was a success and she started to feel much better. However I spoke to mum last night who was in floods of tears..Rosie had been admitted to the vets again, they did £350 worth of tests which showed the stones were back again, she having operation at 10 today to remove them for a second time at the cost of £400-£500....Rosie is now 11 years old and I do think that this has to be the last operation like this, as you can see it wasn't long since she had it done. I just think as she is getting on a bit that anymore operations after today would be unfair on her and mum. We are paying for the operation which I don't mind, Rosie is mum's companion but surely you have to draw the line somewhere? Or am I being mean?

[Mad Chick]

No, I don't think you're being mean

It's really hard to know when to stop when it's a beloved pet and companion. Can you have a private chat with the vet to find out what they think the outcome of any further operations might be? And indeed the likelihood of them recurring for a third time? They're normally very honest about these things and wouldn't want to drag any trauma out for a sick dog who's getting on in years

[lizziedoggarden]

I'm taking mum this afternoon to pick Rosie up, I shall ask then. I did ask last time and they said they didn't know. It's very hard

Thanks Lucy

[Mo]

I agree that it might not be fair to the dog if this was a recurring problem. And the cost is steep. Is that what tests would normally cost? (Bluebell???)

It's a conversation you have to have in advance, though. I assume you live near your mother, so you can watch and see how long it takes Rosie to recover and weigh that up against the good time in between.
The dog can't tell you what she would want, it has to be the owner's decision. And in your case, the person paying the bill.
So if your mother starts asking 'is it fair to the dog' or apologising for the cost, you need to be careful what you say. If what you are feeling is that you don't mind paying, but not every 3 months then don't make it sound as if the money is no object. If you think that it might be kinder to let the dog go, then show that you have doubts.
Non-commital phrases like 'that's something to think about' and 'we do what we think best at the time'.
Your mother needs time to come to terms with the fact that she might lose the dog, rather than be faced with it in an emergency.

[Gwenoakes]

I dont think you are being mean, by putting the welfare of the dog first, then your Mother second. Sorry, that sounds awful I know putting an animal before human, but sometimes you have to. Like has been said previously the animal cant tell you what it wants.

I hope the little doggie makes a quick and speedy recovery and that this situation wont occur again. Is there any chance a change of diet may help to stop this occuring? The reason I thought of it is I have heard of humans that changed their diet and it did help.

[Mo]

Even thinking in a purely monetary terms it is hard to make a balance.
E.g. our car kept needing expensive repairs. When it has failed an MOT it's not a good time because you are rushed into a decision. (We had the transmission repaired, then traded it in a couple of months later).

How much harder when living beings are involved.

[mrs boodles]

That is so very sad Lizziedogarden, it`s so hard to know what to do, especially as they can`t tell you what they want and very special companions. I hope this second operation goes well and you can get some answers from your vet, surely they must have some idea of possible further reoccurance. Take care

[bluebell]

It's very hard when a much loved pet needs veterinary treatment, and costly treatment at that. Tests can be expensive, even scanning or x-raying animals is expensive because you cannot say to a pet "Sit still for 10 seconds while I do something", they often needs anaesthetic to ensure good quality result for imaging.

I think you always have to go for welfare of animal and quality of life - I am with you Lizzie - however for your mum, she wants a magic wand to be waved and the little lady to be OK. It's a horrible decision and only one your mum can come to with guidance from those around her.

I would ask vet what are the chances of the stones coming back and perhaps saying that if they do come back that then perhaps you won't necessarily consider it a good idea for surgical intervention. I take it Rosie will be going back in a couple of days for a post operative check up, so if you are able to go with your mum, I would ask vet in front of your mum, so your mum can be aware of the possibility.

[albertajune]

A really difficult one this as you are paying the bill but mum has the emotional tie and wants her pet to be with her. I can feel for mum as we have just recently had our dog put to sleep at nearly 18. He had a condition that there is no cure for so we had no choice but to give him a peacful end.
I think the decision has to come from mum or she may live with the guilt that the dog could maybe again be helped.
Yes talk privately to the vet, but I think the time to be talking about putting mums dog to sleep should be if the situation of stones rises again, not now when the stones have been removed. You may then have to let her know how you feel about the dog having to endure surgery at 11 or whenever, and of course about the money. Our vet was very good and layed every possible outcome in front of us, but your bills seem to be so large that I hope it isn't in the vet's interest to keep treating the dog.
I really hope that the surgury is a success and there is no more worry about stones, which, if anything like we have, are very very painful.
All the best

[wendy]

Difficult one. But the welfare and quality of life of the dog must come first.

[LittleBrownFrog]

Can kidney stones in animals be prevented (or at least, the likelihood reduced) by dietary changes as they can in humans?

[lizziedoggarden]

We are going back to vets in the morning and vet said she can have a special diet type food to help them stop coming back. We went to a different vet this time as we couldn't get Rosie in the car, she kept flying for me, poor little girl was in so much pain and they couldn't come out till yesterday so went to a different practice..my goodness what a difference! Last time we had no after op care or appointments, only an appt to take stitches out. To be honest I do wonder if they got all the stones out last time? There was two little ones and a massive one..the size of a broad bean

I'm going to have a word with mum..I can't keep paying for it and I just don't think it's fair on Rosie. I know we spent over 5k on Button when he got run over but he was 2 at the time..if he'd been an old dog with only a short time left then we would have been kind and put him to sleep.

[Gwenoakes]

I am glad that you have good post op care and hopefully with a change of diet this situation will not arise again.

[lizziedoggarden]

Rosie is poorly

We took her to vets this morning and she has a temperature, so they did an ultrasound to make sure as they thought she may have had perionitis but she doesn't thank goodness. Only reason I knew about that was because of my chooks

The vet is going to pop in tomorrow after surgery to see how she is. I can't keep taking her as it hurts me to drive..I shouldn't be really but none of my selfish family will help

[Gwenoakes]

Aww, bless her. Did the vet say what they thought it could be if not peritonitis?

Round here some of the vets do a pick up service, perhaps you could ask if yours do that. I hope she is OK and am still crossing everything for her.