DOGS AND CHICKENS

[wendy]

Good for you. Your dog is sweet. But you don't leave them alone together.
Even in play a dog can kill a chicken as they are such fragile little things. Even the big meanies that you have
It only needs for one or two to hurt her and she just says, go away and a chooks comes off the worse

[PixieDust]

By making this post I am bound to set myself up to fail but here goes.

I am training to be a dog behaviourist and I am pretty sure my 4 and a half yr old Cocker Spaniel will run up and down the run squeaking and barking at the girls inside. He has, however, come face to face with chooks at the farm where my OH works and he ignored them completely.

I am worried as he is set in his ways and the girls are going to be an added excitement. He is quite a hyper dog due to a slight nerve birth defect. He is the reason I started studying.

Well the run is there and he goes in and around it. He is being taught about "the girls" when we go to the Farm. Chicken is a food so we will not use that word to him regarding them. Yes he eats raw but he doesn't come across feathers so maybe the connection will not click.

I actually believe the girls may well put him in his place, given time. But we shall see.

It's something which worries me, but I will have strategies to help the situation, hopefully

[wendy]

Surely Prevention is better than cure.
Why risk your little chooks. If he is excitable. So often we, on here, have heard 'my little dog adores them' etc etc. Honestly we have heard it so often.
To then have a post that he/she has killed one or all. Even a little Shih Tzu killed a flock.
It just takes a flapping bird to set off something and the chickens will always come off worse.
Trust is a deadly disease.

[PixieDust]

I was aware of those points but thank you for reiterating them.

I have seen people all over the Internet who lose chooks to foxes and dogs. A huge percentage of them leave their chooks to FR unsupervised, with or without a dog around. They have runs which are poorly set up and wonder why foxes/dogs get in and again are surprised when foxes get in when they leave pop holes open at night.

Dogs can and do integrate very successfully with many animals including chickens, if they are trained with care. Nothing is fool proof but he has had experience of many farm animals, including chooks since he was 11 weeks old. I will be extremely careful with the integration which may or may not go beyond them in the run and him outside, but at no point will I put my girls or the dog at risk of danger and failure.

The fact is I won't be complacent. I am very aware it could end in disaster and that is why I am laying the groundwork to minimise problems.

Your words are so true: Prevention is better than Cure!

[bluebell]

I work at a vets - people bring their dogs in and let their dogs go and sniff cat and rabbit pet carriers - despite asking owners to keep their dogs on short leads all I ever get from them is "It's OK, my dog is used to cats/rabbits". What these people do NOT think about is the stress and anxiety they are causing the cat and rabbits. Dogs are predatory by nature and a cat and rabbit will not be thinking that the dog won't harm them.

Dogs don't always have to bite or attack a hen for a hen to suffer.

[PixieDust]

That is very true. Something I am learning on the Animal Behaviour course is how to read different animal responses. As you quite rightly say a dog could be fine but the hens may be distressed, or indeed vice versa. Watching them very closely initially will always give some indication of the stress levels involved.

I do worry about people who say "He/she is fine" when more than not they have completely missed the stress signals.

[Sara]

A little story for you.

Last week, my Oh didnt close the run properly. For the fist time in 7 years of having chickens they escaped into the garden, with the dogs.

My dogs are all well trained, all 4 of them. They have lived for 7 years with the chooks run the garden, and never shown any interest in them, they have never tried to get into the run and know that the chooks are out of bounds. When i open the door, if they are around ( i have 2 that follow me everywhere) they stay well back, and dont even approach the door. Thy have accepted various poorly chooks in a dog cage in the kitchen.... They are used to the chooks being there.

The result.... There was no mad flapping or chaos, no barking or flying chickens, OH only realised they were on the loose when little klara came into his shed to say hello.......... I had to help one of my girls over rainbow bridge after being caught by the most docile and oldest of the dogs. I eventually found the others hiding between 2 outbuildings, but sadly there is still one little hen missing

I have always insisted on keeping chooks separate, but i must admit that i 'thought' that in the case of an accident , that they would leaved them well alone. Just goes to show you can never be sure. I was devastated that i lost one girl, and have spent hours searching mine and the nieghbours gardens looking for the other one. Very upsetting especially as it was a daft accident.

Theres a new lock on the run door and i now know more than ever that dogs and chooks should always have very separate territories.

Just goes to show, you can be neurotically carefull about keeping them separate and safety but anything can happen

[PixieDust]

Thanks for your sad story Sara. I have already got a wealth of locks on the run in anticipation of such.

Probably need to point out I am not complacent over this and do not expect my dog will ever come into the garden with the hens, but I will try in train and desensitise him enough so that he doesn't bark and distress the hens. He needs to learn they share his space, even though they are in a run.

Going back to my original comment I didn't mention letting the hens run free with the dog. I don't want him to run around the run barking or squeaking which would make him hyper, get the hens distressed and annoy my neighbour's.

[Mo]

Agree, you didn't.

Just that we are all sensitive on here and anxious not to give the wrong idea to anyone browsing. We've heard many stories like Sara's , and not all of them freak accidents - some were folk who had told us how much they trusted their dogs.

So we're not getting at you, just reinforcing the message for anyone else.

[PixieDust]

No I didn't think anyone was getting at me at all Mo. I am the first to jump in if someone inadvertently puts animals in danger or distress because of lack of experience or knowledge. I wouldn't trust my dog with chickens. But they are going to have to co-exist in the garden, albeit separated by fences, so early desensitisation is only going to help this process.

[bikesandbirdsbob]

hi, Dogs and chickens . I have pondered on this as I have 2 dogs and plenty of chickens. Food is the worry ,chickens eat the dog food and the dogs eat theirs if they like it (bread ) But there is another animal to take consideration of FOXES.Having the dogs with chickens does offer them protection.They may lose a feather now and again when they chance a peck , but no harm comes to them (as yet ) There are breeds of dogs that herd ducks to market so the two have worked together in the past. Control of the dogs has got to be nr one and they should get to know right and wrong .My dogs get the treats the chickens get and jealousy shouls be avoided. Harley the staf hates the magpies etc in the garden but excepts the chickens as mine .She helps round the hens up at night as she knows she will get a walk when they are in bed .She does this her self during the day and tells me it walk time .I do not trust them both as nature has there in built ways . But the bottom line is the dogs were there first and the foxes are most deafinately not wanted .Not wanting to jinx it I will say no more and hopefully a peaceful garden will continue.
Bob

[wendy]

I pray that it will always remain that way Bob.
We have been running this forum for a long time. We have heard similar stories. With not such happy endings.

[gardenergirl]

My new chooks are ex-free range birds and they treat every day like it's the Great Escape! They have the whole garden to themselves, but they're obviously used to a much larger area and have found so many ways through, or just over, my fences. I also have a pheasant that likes to visit his harem every day, and I think he's leading them astray .

My neighbour came to the door this evening to let me know that a dog (that 'free-ranges' further up the road at another farm house) almost had one of my girls today. It took a chunk of feathers from her neck, but thank goodness my neighbour was quick enough to run out screaming and scare it off. This dog has tried to follow me before but I shooed it before it got near my house. I didn't think it would come this far.

My next day off (when I'll have any daylight to work with) is Sunday, so I'm afraid I'll be throwing a sickie tomorrow so I can get the whole garden patched up in case it comes back. I definitely can't just leave for the day knowing it probably will come back and eat them.

((I'd checked on the chooks when I got home from work and all were snuggled up in the coop and were fine - as far as I knew. She'll be getting a proper check over tomorrow.))