The Great Global Warming Debate

Discussion on living for a better and more responsible future
Post Reply
User avatar
Richard
Lord Lane of Down...... Site Owner
Posts: 30037
Joined: 26 Apr 2007, 22:48
Gender: Male
Location: Ashford, Kent, UK

The Great Global Warming Debate

Post by Richard »

With the summer we're having and the summer they're getting on the Med, it is worrying ?

Some are firm believers in Global warming, others 50/50, to some it's 'fake news' and made up by people.

Surely the weather patterns over the last 30 or 40 years must be an indication we are warming up and even if there is an element of it warming naturally, are we doing enough to slow it down?

Seems the political side and some peoples attitude often seems to be is 'we won't be here by then'.
Shame that, even if we don't ever see any great, great Grandchildren, are we going in the history books as citizens of this Earth who didn't care or at least didn't do enough?

The mind boggles doesn't it.

Heavy subject for Forum maybe, but interesting to discuss what we feel should be done.

Richard
New Member? Get more from the Forum and join in 'Members Chat' - you're very welcome
User avatar
kitla
Legendary Laner
Posts: 3752
Joined: 30 Oct 2009, 23:25
Gender: Female
Location: Northants

Re: The Great Global Warming Debate

Post by kitla »

What I understand is that we now have the last opportunity to halt and reverse some of the damage before it gets to the point of no return. That makes it rather important that our generation take this seriously. My dad was skeptic, he was a navigator & knowledgable about weather, he was convinced it was about natural cycles of earth & sun. What I have seen & read since then is that these cycles definately do exist & are partly to blame, but since the industrial age they have been speeding up & are no longer "natural". I watched the documentary "the day the dinosaurs died" & was amazed by how much detail the scientists & geologists are now able to find out about the earth. My dad died about 10 years ago, I dont think he'd be a skeptic today.
"He who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings with men. We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals."
--Immanuel Kant
User avatar
Mo
Legendary Laner
Posts: 15359
Joined: 30 Apr 2007, 09:39
Location: Cheshire (nr Chester)

Re: The Great Global Warming Debate

Post by Mo »

It's the usual problem of what can an individual do?
I know that I could stop using my car (walk a mile to the local shop with a wheeled basket), never go dancing, never turn on the computer because it uses electricity, never google anything because their computers use even more energy etc. But really, unless governments put the structures in place everyone is going to carry on as before. And governments aren't looking at grandchildren, or even 20 years time, they are looking at the next election.
Look at the outcry (in about 2000) when they tried to up the tax on petrol. I suspect that even if this had been done as part of a proper transport plan it would still have been unpopular
Dance caller. http://mo-dance-caller.blogspot.co.uk/p/what-i-do.html
Sunny Clucker enjoyed Folk music and song in mid-Cheshire
User avatar
lancashire lass
Legendary Laner
Posts: 6520
Joined: 28 Jun 2007, 15:17

Re: The Great Global Warming Debate

Post by lancashire lass »

kitla wrote:My dad was skeptic, he was a navigator & knowledgable about weather, he was convinced it was about natural cycles of earth & sun. What I have seen & read since then is that these cycles definately do exist & are partly to blame, but since the industrial age they have been speeding up & are no longer "natural"


There's always been extreme weather - ever listen to the radio / tv about records, and although new ones are being broken all the time, there are still some that go back 30, 50 or over 100 years that are current. Bear in mind that before live tv to anywhere in the world, if there was extraordinary weather somewhere, by the time it was printed in the newspaper it was old news and didn't have the same impact as it does when you can watch it live. And yes, it is the increase in frequency and change in patterns that show there is something different - what was a once in a lifetime event is just happening more and more these days.

I watched the documentary "the day the dinosaurs died" & was amazed by how much detail the scientists & geologists are now able to find out about the earth.


I followed the free online FutreLearn course recently called Extinctions: past and present (5 weeks long but you can easily do it in about 2-3 weeks if you knuckled down) - more because I like learning about prehistoric events / dinosaurs and so on. After the last extinction level event, the course brings you up to the current day - it is quite sobering actually. I think I also got a lot out of the discussions (when you register on a course, you can join in the discussion with other students after each chapter to see what you have learned or don't understand or add to the topic) It has made me a lot more aware on the subject and would highly recommend the course if you were interested (I've since registered to follow 5 more courses on the environment and human impact which start in October - some are only 2 up to 5 weeks long and I think follow on after each other so I can pace myself)

[Out of interest, the outcome from the course discussions on present extinction was that the world human population is totally unsustainable - more land is needed for farming destroying natural habitats for a lot of species dependant on them, monoculture (single crop farming over large areas) has a huge impact on the environment, seas are over-fished which have an impact on other larger species dependant on those fish, pollution from ever growing industry and intense farming practices was global. Then bring on global warming caused by humans, the number of plant and animal extinctions are on a steep rise]

Mo wrote:It's the usual problem of what can an individual do?
I know that I could stop using my car (walk a mile to the local shop with a wheeled basket), never go dancing, never turn on the computer because it uses electricity, never google anything because their computers use even more energy etc. But really, unless governments put the structures in place everyone is going to carry on as before. And governments aren't looking at grandchildren, or even 20 years time, they are looking at the next election.
Look at the outcry (in about 2000) when they tried to up the tax on petrol. I suspect that even if this had been done as part of a proper transport plan it would still have been unpopular


Very good points Mo - I feel the same. I've been roped into the "Green Impact" thing at work (I have to identify high carbon usage in my area and find alternates to reduce or offset) so I've been recently looking at this topic carefully. Step one was to find my (personal) carbon footprint - if you answered the questions truthfully or was a little generous because you didn't know exactly, it was off the scale :? It doesn't take into account that people on low incomes don't have options and cannot easily switch from one energy supply to another (as in from gas and electric to say solar power or other green energy - and what if you have no idea if there is a wind farm or other to supplement the electricity generated from fossil fuels) The other issue I have about some "green" ideas (meant to cut the carbon footprint) is they are not necessarily ideal for home. As an example and from personal experience, wood burners may be carbon neutral (tree grows and captures CO2, you burn it and release the same amount of CO2) but it's not clean (for asthmatics) in urban areas.

And it's all well and good being encouraged to buy a new electric car - but (1) is the electricity "green" or cheap enough and (2) what if you can't afford a new car and have no option but to keep driving an older polluting one? (you then get punished for it by increased fuel and road tax) Public transport - some are better or cheaper than others so until that improves, people will use their cars to get to work or do their weekly shopping (the days of the little woman staying at home and nipped down to the local shops every day while the man worked are long gone, and so have shopping habits)
User avatar
lancashire lass
Legendary Laner
Posts: 6520
Joined: 28 Jun 2007, 15:17

Re: The Great Global Warming Debate

Post by lancashire lass »

Richard wrote:With the summer we're having and the summer they're getting on the Med, it is worrying ?


to answer your question, you need to look at prehistoric climate.

Take for example the Neolithic climate - between 8000 BC and 3900 BC, the sahara desert was moist and green, populated with animals and humans. Then the arid conditions returned and have extended ever since. The European side of the Mediterranean is basically on the fringes of that desert even with the sea between (interestingly, it is suggested some parts of the Sahara returned to desert conditions much more quickly than other regions, possibly due to early farming and domestication of animals during this period which stripped the land of vegetation)

As for our summers ... there are other issues going on. For one, yes, increased global temperature will drive storm systems (as heat rises, wind speed increases. Over large bodies of water like the sea, more water is evaporated off - what goes up must come down somewhere and there'll be a lot more) This year, blame the jet stream for driving the Atlantic fronts towards Britain - then again, I'd much rather have cool, wet, windy weather than a heat wave (before an onslaught of those who would have preferred a 30oC + summer, the UK is not equipped for extreme weather, hot or cold, and lots of people die - one of those things you don't see published in the newspaper headlines with photos of people spreading sun lotion over themselves)

The other is the design of our towns, cities and urban areas. If you build houses on flood plains, expect them to get flooded! If you build your magnificent cities on the rivers, allow for rivers to rise in wet periods. Flash floods can happen without warning (a deluge on already saturated ground means the water is not going to be absorbed by the soil but run off - build a village at the bottom of steep hills next to a little stream and it'll turn into a torrent) The frequency of town and city flooding in the UK might have a lot to do with the design of the street drains, tarmac road surfaces, paving and concreted gardens and large urban sprawls - rain water is simply running off the surfaces rather than be absorbed, and being directed into already swollen rivers and other waste water systems.
User avatar
Richard
Lord Lane of Down...... Site Owner
Posts: 30037
Joined: 26 Apr 2007, 22:48
Gender: Male
Location: Ashford, Kent, UK

Re: The Great Global Warming Debate

Post by Richard »

Gosh what fascinating and detailed insights.

Yes, on Mo's point, it's the 'charity begins at home', 'put your own house in order first' and I'm sure many others will come to mind.

I was quite pleased I bought a Diesel Camper Van, until a few weeks ago when all the disclosers came out.

There is also an attitude of 'what's the point of us doing it when such and such a Country doesn't care'.
I applaud the Paris Agreement but how many really will follow the rulebook?

Most of life begins outside our own back door, so whatever small thing we do, collectively it can have an effect'.

Oh dear, the World in more ways than one is under threat of some disaster, natural or not.

Very difficult and dangerous times.

Richard
New Member? Get more from the Forum and join in 'Members Chat' - you're very welcome
Trev62
Legendary Laner
Posts: 1164
Joined: 04 Jul 2016, 19:03
Gender: Male
Location: Bulgaria

Re: The Great Global Warming Debate

Post by Trev62 »

)de: )de: How many flights do politicians/actors/musicians/celebrities take to attend meetings/conferences/concerts (including those about "Global Warming" and "Saving the Planet") or flights just work at EU HQ? How many so called "Green" celebrities/musicians have fleets of jets, multiple homes, warehouses full of cars etc etc, How many "Concerned" Royals and Presidents (not just the UK Royals) go on tours travelling in private jets and then in motorcades of countless cars (not forgetting their countless holidays) all over the world to promote their own or their Governments views? How many countries rely on their Weapons/Armaments Industries as a major source of income that are then used worldwide (possibly contributing to some of the planets issues)?

Just a few questions as surely all these people are creating carbon footprints Big Foot himself would be proud off as they go about their so call "important and influential" lives!

Baffles me how me putting a plastic bottle in a bin from which only 14% will eventually be recycled (willing to be corrected on that figure!) will address anything whilst the "Powerful and Elite" continue living and operating as they do, still I am sure the media will continue to publish and show their speeches lecturing us on how we should live and why we should pay more in "Green" taxes whilst they continue happily on their way!

Sorry but although I believe climate change is a natural effect that is being enhanced by us humans, until these so called "Powerful, Influential and Elitist" people put all their houses in order (and Politicians if I am right actually are there to do these things) my efforts at recycling will make no difference at all! )de: )de:
"Not all those who wander are lost"
User avatar
kitla
Legendary Laner
Posts: 3752
Joined: 30 Oct 2009, 23:25
Gender: Female
Location: Northants

Re: The Great Global Warming Debate

Post by kitla »

I feel that we have to think every little bit helps. A million people can say "oh well, one little plastic bottle wont matter". I didnt used to bag up dog poop if it was in the field, I thought it didnt matter - it's a big field. But as Mojo grew bigger I started thinking... 2 walks a day, that's 60 poops a month he could be leaving in the field ...ewwww! (I always pick up now, with compostable bags of course) I know this isnt about dog poop, just making a point.
"He who is cruel to animals becomes hard also in his dealings with men. We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals."
--Immanuel Kant
wildlifemad
Lively Laner
Posts: 435
Joined: 22 Mar 2017, 09:40

Re: The Great Global Warming Debate

Post by wildlifemad »

Deep thinking post!!!! As has already been said, we can all do our bit but there are plenty who think "can't be bothered" & it seems (but not always) to be the younger generation (I am 50!) I have discussions with friends about it & we all say its not a nice world to be bringing children into these days. The politicians don't think past their 5 year term which is a VERY short sighted attitude. They are the leaders & should lead by example but sadly most of the time they don't. All I can do is do my best (along with Hubby) & hope that attitudes change.
User avatar
saint-spoon
Moderator
Posts: 9259
Joined: 10 Mar 2008, 14:16
Gender: Male
Location: south coast

Re: The Great Global Warming Debate

Post by saint-spoon »

Interesting thread Dickie. Without a doubt the earth has it’s cycles and has been steadily warming for millennia but also without doubt is that we are interfering with the natural way of things. The use of CFCs for everything from aerosol propellants to cleaning fluids and refrigeration gas (which it is still used for) had a big impact and fortunately the Kyoto protocol has vastly reduced the amount of those that we release into the atmosphere. Folk go on about CO2 emissions but a single volcanic eruption belches out vast quantities of CO2. Saying that our reliance on fossil hydrocarbon has to stop, we need new fuels and new sources of energy. I am not a fan of wood chip burning power stations either, they are heralded as being a green alternative but a tonne of wood burnt in an hour will take 20+ years to be recaptured so it’s like running up a credit card bill only with CO2. Methane from livestock is also a problem that needs addressing although I think that in the UK we are pretty good compared to the ginourmous industrial beef and pork factories that they have in the states.
Persecuting car drivers is looking for scapegoats I am afraid, I ride my bicycle to work, not virtue signalling, it is just cheaper for me to do that because my 2.2L Diesel Sante Fe guzzles the fuel over the three miles in low gears; but I do do about 4k miles a year in my car, most of it towing the caravan. I reckon that a single Caribbean holiday for a family of four puts more carbon per head than my family holidays.
Bah Humbug
Post Reply