chicken run safety

[christchurch]

Hi

i work at a school in surrey and we have decided we are going to keep chickens.
We have an area at the back of the school field where we can put a coop and run but i'm worried about foxes (we have a few) getting into the run.
This may be a silly question but does the run need a base ?.
Some sites i have looked at have said that extending the fencing outwards all around the coop for about a meter will stop foxes digging under.
I don't want to put a concrete/paving stone base down if not needed, as i've also read that the chickens need to be able to scratch around in the dirt and feed on insects etc in the soil.But i don't want anything to happen to our chickens.
What should i do for the best ?

[manda]

A walk in run, whilst it will cost more to make, will save your back - so that's the first consideration...and as big as possible. Ideally a hen needs 10sqft of space in a run but if they are going to be in there all the time then the more room they can have the better and the less bullying and health problems you will get.

After that - Weld mesh all the way (small guage as possible)...foxes can't bite through it. Again it is more expensive although in the long run not as it won't break and as I say can't be bitten through.

Bury the mesh down in the ground and then put a 12 inch skirt of chicken wire...wider if you are able - attach that where the mesh meets the ground and then peg it out flat on the ground ...that will stop foxes digging down to try and get under the run sides. Does that makes sense.

As for a base ...well you don't have to (as long as the outsides are like Fort Knox) but you could always have part of it with flag stones and part without so they can scratch about if they are going to be inside it all the time.

Oh and put a roof on if funds allow ...you will welcome this in bad weather and in the winter....a wet run is an unpleasant place for hens and humans alike. It will quickly get boggy and then you have that wonderful mix of mud and droppings

I think that covers it.

[KarenE]

Manda got there before me

Foxes will try and dig in so definitely do as Manda suggests and make the surrounding area safe. I would also advise roofing the run both for weather protection and also to stop foxes from climbing over (especially if there's a wall or tree they could use to gain height). You definitely don't want the children to discover the carnage that a fox will leave behind.

Chickens will need a lot of looking after (they aren't quite so hardy as the battery system suggests) so make sure there's someone to keep an eye on them over school holidays and weekends, especially in winter if water will be frozen etc. I'd advise giving them as much space as possible - you'll have happier chickens exhibiting more natural behaviour which is better for the kids to learn about. And if you are planning on getting a cockeral, please please don't breed - many of the chicks will be boys too and they are difficult to rehome, so unless you have a plan in place for rehoming chicks and cockerals please resist the temptation!

Oh yes - and if you're running a gardening club too, firstly don't let the chickens out in your veg patch (they'll cause havoc) but more importantly, you'll have a use for the mountains of poo and used bedding they will produce as it makes excellent fertilizer.

[Richard]

Hi Christchurch

Sorry to some Members who have seen me post similar before.

[center][/center]

This is how one, maybe two, Foxes got through into my Chicken Shed and took out five chickens I think it was, some years ago.
A Fox can get through a gap the height of it's head.

With Predators, think 'over, under, through'.

Some sound advice from the other Members.

Richard

[christchurch]

Thanks for all the advice it has all been very useful.
It has certainly made some people at the school realize there is a lot more involved in keeping chickens than they thought.
I have now contacted a local children's farm/zoo who are going to come along and help erect something that will keep the chickens safe and well.

[christchurch]

Hi again
another question for you.

Sadly we don't have a gardening club,so is it ok to put the "mountain of bedding and droppings" into general rubbish bins or do you need a special bin like you do for food waste ?

[manda]

If I was you I'd contact the local allotment/ gardeners or something like that and ask them if they'd like to set up something with you so they can collect it ..they'll take it off your hands for nothing...win win too good to throw....not sure about the UK bins anymore so I'm sure someone else will be able to answer that one

[silverback]

Hi Christchurch, I putt my chicken bedding in the green recycle big, garden waste etc!, just thought of something else, if the school is going ahead with this then will there be someone to care for the chooks during school holidays etc!!..

[christchurch]

Thanks for that manda,never thought about allotment people.As it happens we have some less than a quarter of a mile away so i'll make contact with them.
Silverback don't worry, I've been assured there is a list of volunteers eager to help out.Though I suspect after the initial novelty has worn off that will disappear and it will end up with me (i'm the school caretaker and live on site) and my family.
Which is why i'm so glad I've found this site and can get help from experts.
Speaking of which here's another question,two actually.
Do I (the school) need to register with a vet and will the chickens (do you call them that or hens ?) need any jabs like cats and dogs have ?
I think i may have lots of questions in the months to come.

[Mo]

Hens can be trouble free for ages. But it may be a good idea to look for a poultry vet in advance. Some hens may have been vaccinated before you get them, but I think it comes in commercial flock sized packs, so most of us don't bother.

You asked what we call them - we all have our own terms depending where we are on the pets/livestock divide.

If you are going to be left with all the work you may want one of these, unless you are so convinced that the run is so secure that you don't need to shut the pop-hole.

[christchurch]

Thanks mo,when the time comes i'll look in to a timer on the door.
As it stands at the moment i think we are actually going to hatch the eggs at the school and then when the time is right transfer the chicks outside in to the coop.
So my next questions are :
does the fact they are being hatched at the school and therefore not coming from people who have experience of hens mean there are things we need to do. No idea what they may be,just basic chickeny things to make sure they are ok ?, and at what age can they be transferred outside into the coop ?

[Mo]

That makes things a lot more complicated, and there's quite a chance that more than half will be cockerels. Not a good idea to have more than 1 in a small flock, and even 1 may be too much attention for a small number of hens.
Some of our members have hatched chicks, so if they don't answer soon try a new thread with different title.

[bmpsands]

I've steered clear of hatching because a) the neighbours might not like a lot of crowing at 3am on a summer morning and b) I really don't fancy dispatching the boy chicks.

We're not allowed to put animal waste in either the recycling or the composting bins. We burn the drier stuff and put the wet straw etc into the general bin but in big bags. This is in addition to what we have in our compost bins and on the veggie patch.

Flocks of 50+ birds need to be registered with DEFRA I believe and there is a voluntary scheme to register smaller flocks. I haven't registered mine, but in light of the recent outbreak of bird flu quite close to me I'm seriously thinking about doing so. Your school might like to do this because I'm sure DEFRA would supply educational materials etc that you could use with the children.

[Totally Scrambled]

Hello CC,
Greetings and welcome to The Lane.
Are you sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin.
As Mo has said it will be a miracle if you hatched your own and got no boys. There is no hard and fast rule for what percentage will be boys but be prepared for 50%, you might be unlucky and get a higher percentage than that.
This means you will have to work out what to do with them, again as Mo said, more than one in a small flock can cause problems. The boys can be very hard to rehome and you have to know what you are doing if you are going to dispatch them.
If you do leave a boy in the flock the eggs will be fertilised but as long as any eggs are collected daily none of the eggs will start to germinate as they have to be sat on by a hen for at least 24hours to start the process off. There is no way to spot a fertilised egg before germination starts without use of a microscope or very very good eyesight. There is no change in the flavour, texture etc. of the eggs at all.
If you are going to hatch I assume it is through a company that lends you an incubator, if not you would need to get one or make your own. The easiest ones to use are those that regulate the temperature and humidity automatically.
Eggs take between 21 & 25 days to hatch after which they should go in a heated brooder box or in their closed coop with a heater at a push. They have to have heat available until they are about 5 weeks old as they cannot regulate their own body temp until then. It is better if they can use the heat when they need it and get away from it so they don't overheat. Obviously heat is more important if the weather is colder. If the weather is very warm they could go outside earlier than 5 weeks but must have acccess to heat if they need it.
When first hatched let them dry off thoroughly before transferring them to the brooder. They won't need food or water for 24 hours as they are still absorbing the yolk sack from the egg but it doesn't do any harm to have it available to them.
Make sure the water is in a very shallow dish so there is no danger of drowning. Maybe add some marbles to the dish.
Initially, for at least the first 5 to 6 weeks they should have Chick Crumb which is small enough for them to eat and has all the nutrients etc they will need to grow healthily. Then slowly change them over to growers pellets/mash untill they are at least 16 weeks old before again changing them slowly over to Layers pellets/mash.
If you are getting them from a company that provides all the gubbins then the chickens are likely to be Auto Sexing or s.ex Linked which means they males and females will have distinctly different colouring or markings so you can tell the boys from the girls. Would the company be willing to take just the boys back? That would solve the problem of what to do with any boys and leave you with just the girls.
There is quite a bit more to know about young chooks, common health issues etc. but I don't want to overload you with info any more than I have already
There's always someone around The Lane if you have any further questions
Dom

[scbk]

Hatching from eggs would seem quite a big step, especially if you've never had hens before.

A breeder selling hens as a business should have them vaccinated
As a guide, here's a link to the vaccinations the local breeder does (a great bloke, highly recommended) http://www.flowerburn.co.uk/Pages/Vaccinations.aspx


Another option instead of burying mesh to stop predators digging in is a line of old paving stones round the perimeter (on the outside). Mesh buried will rust in years to come.
I have nightmares of trying to pull out rusty old chicken wire with roots and grass growing through it, when renewing fences