feather pulling and bald patches

[zedhead]

Hi, can someone point me at a thread about feather pulling and bald patches with scabs on please, my new girls are all getting at each other, I have in the back of my head that you spray em with purple stuff or is that only for bottoms.
Thaks for reading
Barry

[KarenE]

Hi

Don't know about a thread but have you checked for lice or mites? And look for eggs at the base of feathers.

Feather eating could be a couple of things - boredom, habit, bullying, not enough space for hens to get away etc etc. Is there a main culprit or are they all as bad?

Or the other common reason could be because you have a feather eater due to lack of protein - as feathers are high in protein they can use them to quickly up their dose, especially when they are moulting. I had a girl once who was short of protein due to a bad moult and she used to nick feathers from the other girl's rears.

Yes you can put purple antiseptic spray onto any bare bottoms especially if they are sore and red. Or use sudocreme.

[zedhead]

Hi

Don't know about a thread but have you checked for lice or mites? And look for eggs at the base of feathers.

Feather eating could be a couple of things - boredom, habit, bullying, not enough space for hens to get away etc etc. Is there a main culprit or are they all as bad?

Or the other common reason could be because you have a feather eater due to lack of protein - as feathers are high in protein they can use them to quickly up their dose, especially when they are moulting. I had a girl once who was short of protein due to a bad moult and she used to nick feathers from the other girl's rears.

Yes you can put purple antiseptic spray onto any bare bottoms especially if they are sore and red. Or use sudocreme.

Thank you Karen, I did have a quick look at them tonight but was more looking at the bald patches, I will look for lice etc tomorrow, they are around five months old, and well settled, they have a reasonable size run and free range a few times a week, there is not any real bullying, funny enough the two at the bottom of the pecking order seem to be better off, I will try to cover all bases ... treat them and up their protein as well, i will get some antiseptic as they look quite sore with some blood.
Thank you again
Barry

[KarenE]

Are they off chick crumb now? I haven't had chicks so I'm not sure what age they should be fed on it until, but maybe add a bit back into their feed as that is higher in protein than normal layers pellets. Dried mealworms are also a good source, and sunflower seed hearts. Be careful not to overfed and turn them into little porkers though!

The purple spray, I've never used it myself but I think it's gentian violet spray, or you can get other sprays as well - the purple is used to hide the redness. Nettex do one as well I think.

With lice or mites, you may see something scurrying around or you may see the eggs. I would guess though that it's a protein deficiency but always worth a check over for creepy crawlies.

[zedhead]

Thank you again Karen, They are on pellets and have been since I got them, I add a little dried corn and give them a few meal worms and some veg occasionally(mostly spinach) I will up the meal worms and have a good look at them tomorrow evening.
Thanks
Barry

[zedhead]

An update.... It is one bird doing the damage, she is a white fenning sussex, and by far the biggest of the four, she has just started to lay in the last week so I am sure it is a protein issue, I have properly checked the other girls for lice/fleas etc and they are clear but while I was doing it I dusted them anyway, I have sprayed them with with an antiseptic wound spray and also something that is supposed to make the feathers taste nasty, although she is still pecking at the other girls..
I have checked the content of the pellets that I give them (which are dobson & horrell from pets at home) which are below
Crude Protein - 16.0%
Crude Oil & Fats - 3.5%
Crude Fibre - 4.0%
Crude Ash - 12.5%
Calcium - 3.75%
Phosphorus - 0.7%
Sodium - 0.15%

Lysine - 0.71%
Methionine - 0.36%
Vitamin A - 7,500iu/kg
Vitamin D - 3,000iu/kg
Vitamin E - 20mg/kg

A mistake I may have made is that I feed a little corn in with the pellets (just for winter) ans she is particulary partial to the corn.
I have given them extra meal worms and free ranged them for a couple of hours yesterday evening. I can't do it all day because of foxes .
Should I seperate her, (which will be difficult) ??
What would be my best course of action ?
Thanks for reading my long winded post

[KarenE]

Hi Barry

I see you've posted in the general forum too, hope it's okay to reply here.

I think you're right about the protein. See if you can seperate her when feeding, maybe give her extra mealworms, sunflower seeds or even scrambled egg (odd I know but full of protein) or sardines in tomato sauce. Cut the corn out for the moment as it's probably not helping. Maybe get a small bag of growers if you can and add that to her feed as that is supposed to be higher in protein (there's a post from Manda around somewhere about that if you search the forum about high protein foods).

Found Manda's advice:

Dried fish flakes 76, Dried liver 76, Dried earthworms 76, Duckweed 50 (got any ponds near you..it's free!!), Brewers yeast 39, Soybeans (dry roasted) 37, Flaxseed 37, Alfalfa seed 35
Mealworms we know are a great source of protein, Earthworms, maggots. Fishmeal has about 28% protein so good.

I use the D&H pellets as well and think they're fine, but maybe she needs more protein than the others especially if just coming into lay. It will take a little while for the feather eating to stop so be a bit patient.

I've never seperated birds either but ideally you'd want her to be in visual distance of the others unless you're convinced it's a real bullying issue - the feather eating makes me think it isn't. If she isn't in view of the others reintroducing her could be difficult. If you can't really seperate, then maybe try giving her a good squirt with a water pistol might help warn her off. Sadly I have found the anti peck sprays not that effective.

Hopefully with increased protein she should stop feather eating - assuming it's that and not a habit or bullying - should stop, maybe give it a week at the most?

[Bob B]

Hello it may sound strange but when I have had this problem in the past I have covered the bare patches with Vic Vapour rub, once the hen that is doing the pecking gets a taste you will find that she will not go back for another go.
This has always worked for me with no ill affects on the birds.

[KarenE]

What a brilliant idea! Got to be worth a go.

[zedhead]

Thank you again Karen and Bob, she is seperated for the other birds health, she pulled one over this morning and the damage has got far worse since yesterday, all appeares peacfull in the main run and she is in the woodstore next to it, the girls can get to whitin an inch of each other and can see each other. she has her own coop and while only small an ok run. I will up the protein for all the girls and freerange them more.
She has always been an agressive girl and even goes for the dog but this is different I don't think it is bullying so can only think it is a protein issue at least I can monitor what she eats this way.
Thanks again I will keep you posted

[kitla]

last year my brahma Bonny had an unusually long broody stint & when she came
out of it started pecking at the others new feathers & quills. I guessed she was
lacking in protein & probably other nutrition too, so I put nutridrops in the water and mixed growers pellets into the feed (it wont harm the others to eat growers pellets
for a while) Every time I caught her doing it - especially first thing in the morning, I
distracted her & gave her a few mealworms which seemed to satisfy her craving!
One of the chooks that was growing alot of new quills had to have a purple sprayed bottom for a while, which helped, its also antiseptic & will disguise any blood that
the plucking has drawn. After a while Bonny just stopped doing it. Unfortunately
I think it can become a habit & a dominance issue sometimes.
Good luck, I hope the extra protein works with her.

[KarenE]

Is she the top hen? Just wondering whether she's trying to assert dominance now she's come into lay, especially if the others aren't yet. I do think protein is an issue too. Just with your comment about her always having been a bit aggressive.

[zedhead]

Is she the top hen? Just wondering whether she's trying to assert dominance now she's come into lay, especially if the others aren't yet. I do think protein is an issue too. Just with your comment about her always having been a bit aggressive.

I don't think she was top hen (I have never been completely able to uderstand the pecking order) I would have put her 3rd out of the four, the two who I thought were above her have both been laying for a while and didn't seem to take that much notice of her, she was very agressive to one particular bird, who she wouldn't even allow to eat sometimes. The atmosphere is definatly much better in the main run this afternoon and for the first time the little one is eating with the others.
I have always found the hens I had in the past to be pretty laid back only having problems with agression when one is ill.
She is definatly the one that does not like human contact and the one who runs from me and hides, I had to catch her yesterday with a net.

[KarenE]

Hm. It sounds like there could be a pecking order thing going on too.

Is rehoming a possibility at all? If the protein and separation don't work I mean. She may need a bigger flock, where there are more birds she can dissipate her aggression on. More space too if possible, certainly for the little bottom hen but also maybe for her too.

[manda]

If you give them some chick crumb mixed in with their layers that will up the protein content. and you can just keep using it till it's gone so there is no waste....helps with Calcium absorption as well as feather growth

You say they have veg that is mostly Spinach ...I would also stop the Spinach completely ....it contains Oxalic acid (Oxalate) which inteferes with Calcium absorption which will effect feather growth as well.

There could be pecking order issues but I'd go with dietary changes to begin with and see how that goes first. If there is no blood drawn I wouldn't separate because the dietary changes should kick in quickly.