Bumble's eggs

[chookmike]

Bumble has laid just two eggs in the period since I reported her 100%. She remains fit and healthy but I am concerned that I have not addressed any diet problem. She is welcome to give up laying eggs for good if that is what all the trouble has resulted in. She makes nests and sits but no issue. If she were egg bound or had EYP she would have died by now surely?

Any suggestions; just leave it to nature?

Rebecca says that when their chooks went off lay in New Zealand they fed them eels from the creek (Manda..?) We don't have a creek, never mind any eels.

Thanks for any suggestions

Mike

[Skeksis]

You have taken on board those dietary changes so I presume she's not really on layers any more. As long as she is perky, eating, drinking, pooing and her crop is empty each morning and full each night, clean bum, no smell from her beak, and her tummy does not feel either hard or squishy and no pulsating vent or funny walk I would say don't worry.

HTH

[Linda S]

Hi Mike our lovely Hope only laid about 6or 7 eggs in her six months of freedom.
We too wernt bothered about them the main thing to us that she enjoyed her well deserved freedom
As you know Hope was very very poorly and it took everything she had to recover and have that too short time with us.
We wondered if hens like Hope and Bumble who have health issuses the reproductive system might cease working, being that thier body needs to be fit to rear young, but then often very ill creatures will bear youngsters
Also iv read of hens and i dont mean ex-batts that have only laid for a short time and then finished, i suppose they are like the females of any species in that some will have problems with hormones or reprodution.
As long as she is happy and as Skesis says she has none of the symptoms that she listed i know you and Rebbeca will be happy to love her and share her joy of life, shes such a deserving and brave little soul Lindaxx

[chookmike]

Not quite there, bum is not clean to her old standard, newly white stained feathers and often pulsating...All other signs normal.

My reading has always steered me away from feeling around the underside for fear of breaking an egg. If you would be kind enough to give a few pointers I'll start on the others then compare. She is like a soppy old dog and will just stand there while the latest invasion of her privacy is carried out. This must be well over a week - surely she would be in trouble by now? She runs around as fast as the others now, but still a bit tail down when perching and tires quickly.

I have just crossed with the caring message from LindaS and find I can add to this post just before posting - that's a clever bit of IT. Thanks for that Linda. I hear what you say and you know that our only concern is her welfare, not the production of eggs. Sorry, that sounded like a scold but you know how the written word can come over rather wrongly sometimes. Thanks for your comments and concern.x

Mike

Thanks as always

[KarenE]

Hi Mike

One of my chickens (ex batt) gave up laying last year but still likes to sit in the nest box every day and I've noticed this with my older ex batts to - even though they don't lay any more, it's either a habit they've got into or they just want a bit of peace & quiet in the coop. Cassie (my current non laying chicken) even sits on top of the others' eggs, cooing to herself but she's not broody. Maybe Bumble's doing the same thing. She doesn't sound too ill from what you've described, but keep an eye on her, as you never really know with chickens.

I have tried feeling around a chicken's underneath for a stuck egg but with no luck to be honest. I spent ages gently massaging Nugget's belly, convinced I could feel an egg shape that was moving (this was before I knew the little madam was moulting and not egg bound) - until it worked it's way out and ended up being a dirty great poo! So it's not without its risks...

She loved the attention though

[chookmike]

It's a good job this is a private (ish) forum as we might all get reported....

I made a mistake up the pub the other weekend lunchtime when someone asked what I had been up to that morning - an innocuous conversation starter...

I said I had just been fiddling around with the hens.

I am now known as the 'chicken fiddler'

Thanks Karen

[Linda S]

Hi Mike the only impression i got from your message is your concern for Bumble and not wrong in any way and i just voiced what we had wondered about the health thing and laying
We all know the love and care you have heaped on your little girl and i would certainly never doubt your motives, so dont worry Mike i got your messege as was meant to be
Our Hope was the same, she would stand all sorts of indignities and just beep-beep at us, we miss her more than i could ever explain but we know she loved her life and sadly wasnt meant to be here for too long Lindaxx

[chookmike]

Thanks Linda, pleased to know we understand each other. Take care and have a lovely day

Cheers for now

Mike

[Skeksis]

Hi Mike

You're correct absolutely about the fear of breaking an egg by feeling and squeezing incorrectly under the tummy. However, I will give you some hints as to what I do:

One thing is that I pick my hens up each day. This enables me to notice immediately any changes in weight. If a hen is lighter she may be losing weight and if suddenly heavier possibly a worrying problem.

When you crouch down near your hen and you are at the side of the hen, I place one hand under the hens bottom between her legs and the other on her front to gently steady her without pressing or holding her. If you fee her all underneath between her legs about a fingers length down from her vent and forwards to about a fingers length in front of her legs that is the area I am talking about. You are right that squeezing here is a big no no and so usually is any pressing or massage. However, if you feel all of your hens you will immediately notice any changes just by touching her in this area. For example a possibly egg bound hen will feel more solid and perhaps a little warmer, than usual. A healthy hen normally has a firm area here which does have a little give a bit like touching oneself on the front of your calf. A possibly EYP hen will often feel noticeably heavier but will often feel more solid with little give and sometimes hotter. This is VERY noticeable, I find, if you touch your hens like this daily and is often the first sign of a problem before any other signs at all. A hen that feels more squishy or swollen here like touching a woman's boobs, possibly can be a sign of fluid or ascitis. A change of weight is a big giveaway too and you will notice from day to day. So, no dangerous squeezing or massage is involved which could harm the hen but more like a touching as one would put ones hand on a child's forehead to feel it. You will if you do this daily get to know precisely how your hens feel. I am utterly convinced that this process as described has saved many of my hens as I have caught egg binding immediately and been able to give a bath, and have also caught EYP like this and treated in plenty of time. I have hens who would not otherwise have been here with me.

You can also tell a lot by a hens breathing and can tell if it is laboured sometimes as the smooth bare skin under and to the front of the eyes which leads to the beak, can often be seen puffing in and out with a hens breathing when she is struggling.

I hope this is clear and helps xx

[aceface]

Rebecca says that when their chooks went off lay in New Zealand they fed them eels from the creek (Manda..?) We don't have a creek, never mind any eels.

Thanks for any suggestions

Mike

the only creek I ever go up mike is the one without paddles

good luck with little bumble mike ,she has withstood so many indignities and invasions of her privacy that it is all part of her life and she is so loved that im sure you are forgiven by her

I think that when we spend so many hours with our hens and we form a bond that is strong they somehow know we are trying to help, i have had a long and interesting conversation myself this evening with a friend about the topic of knowing how our hens feel and how they respond to being handled etc, I find in my opinion that if I handle my hens when well and going about their usual healthy normal business they find it less intrusive and stressful to be examined when unwell or feeling out of sorts ,my hens are handled daily and show no signs of finding this distressing or uncomfortable ,my lana and boudica have been reared by me from three weeks old and have been handled from the moment I got them home,they now jump onto my knee every evening and lie together having under their wings tickled and gently stroking their chin and crop I also stroke their legs and feet in the direction of the scales and this got them used to what would be a weekly pedicure and foot check ,neither of them have found it distressing at any time a small healthy treat of fruit follows pedicures and they associate something nice with a needed weekly foot check ,something which is very valuable as you well know when checking and treating bumbles etc I would always handle any future hens in this way and prepare them for necessary handling when ill etc .

I always find the topic of handling hens very interesting as we all have a different approach and opinion to whether we handle or don't .

as you may guess I am happy to hug my hens and am sure they are happy to be hugged

love to little bumble as always a pleasure to read your posts Mike

[manda]

Rebecca says that when their chooks went off lay in New Zealand they fed them eels from the creek (Manda..?) We don't have a creek, never mind any eels.

Thanks for any suggestions

Mike

Eels....what's not to love?!! They are free for a start ...another frugal addition to the diet (I prefer them smoked and in my diet )

Seriously...they're a good source of all sorts of things... Particularly Vitamins A, B1, B2, B12, D and E...and they're low sodium...and high in Omega 3's.

If she's not on layers now she's probably not absorbing calcium 1) from the diet..2) as she's getting on in hen years ....3) because she's had so many physical issues / stress as a result of that and 4) the other hens as well that would all effect laying.

I agree it's unlikely she's laying internally ..I'm pretty sure you would have seen the adverse effects of that.

Small additions of extra protein ...could be duckweed (which is a good source of protein too).... doesn't have to be meat protein.

[Freeranger]

I don't want to be a doom-monger, Mike, but we lost our lovely little bantam, Donna, a few days ago. She too had been pulsing for a few days as though trying to lay and also had the whiteish poo. We and the vet (who we trust 100%) treated her as though she had a stuck egg, though he thought it too high to reach, but she lost condition rapidly and died of a fit whilst being examined. The post mortem he requested showed that she'd had an infection, which gave her the impression that she had an egg and she acted accordingly.

If you think she may be egg bound, then I'd suggest firstly that you try an establish whether she's eating & drinking, and whether she's pooing normally - e.g. by looking underneath her spot on the perch. If she is, then she can't be egg-bound. If you think she might, then follow all the advice on here about treating it - the warm bath to relax the vent, possibly a bit of extra lubrication etc. If she doesn't then pass an egg after a couple of treatments and she's still contracting, then I'd suggest a trip to the vet (again).

We also lost another big girl a while back who was displaying similar behaviour, and in her case it was an impacted gizzard from eating long grass.

I do hope I'm worrying about nothing, and don't want to be alarmist in any way. You and Bumble are so in tune with each other by now that I'm sure you'll notice if she starts to go down hill.

[chookmike]

Thanks everyone as always. No egg again today but she either an incredibly good actress or fit as a fiddle. I feel it has been plenty long enough now for any illness or condition to have progressed and become obvious so I am going to remain cautious but optimistic!

Message for Pepi - sorry all, I can't find her post I meant to reply to so hope she reads this one. I was just going to say I'll post some ACV to Ireland if you would like?

Glorious day again and an afternoon in the garden with the hens and cricket on the radio. A customer just gave me a bottle of Villa Maria Sauvignon Blanc so I'm all set....

Cheers!